Ask HN: What happened to normal-sized smartphones? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: What happened to normal-sized smartphones?

38 pointsdiggan105 comments

After discovering that my iPhone 12 Mini cannot automatically run something Apple decided to call "Automations", but instead require me to tap a notification, I've decided to move to greener pastures that respect user choice a bit more.

But it's short of impossible to find a phone that wouldn't be a huge hassle to hold in my hand. I don't want to have to use two hands to write a message, I just a smartphone that is the same size as they used to be, instead of these over-sized abominations that are currently popular.

But the only ones who seem to be releasing smartphones in the same size (or below) as the iPhone 12 Mini seems to be shady brands one never heard of before, or really cheap ones with very low specifications.

So what happened to the smartphones you could hold in one hand? Why did they disappear? And why is no company no longer offering these sizes and instead go for "bigger is better"?

I cannot possibly be the only one with my size of hands + want to be able to use my phone with one hand?

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Apple still sells the iPhone SE 3. Rumor has it that the next iPhone SE will lose the home screen button but retain the same size. The camera isn't as powerful as the iPhone 13/14/15 lines but I find that it does fine in low light and takes the same exceptionally beautiful photos in good lighting. It has portrait mode as well.

It's not that much of a trade-off in terms of features or capability and it has the small size you'd expect.

Not going to help OP who already has an iPhone, and whose problem is with iOS.

FWIW, I have an iPhone SE (2nd gen), and the Automations feature described by OP works fine. So iOS is not necessarily a dealbreaker.

How did you get it to work? I'm trying to do something very basic, wait for a text message to appear and make a POST request to an endpoint with the contents. I can create the Shortcut itself, but I cannot make the Automation run without showing a notification and then requiring me to tap on the notification to run the Automation.

(Translating UI strings from German.) When I have the automation open, the first two settings are "Automation" (set to "Execute immediately") and "Notify on execution" (set to off). That seems to work. But not sure if it's more restrictive for certain types of actions, like network requests. I'm only using it for fairly basic stuff like "if Youtube or Nebula is opened, turn screen rotation lock off".

> That seems to work. But not sure if it's more restrictive for certain types of actions, like network requests.

Yes, yes it is. This is the problem. If you want to automate something based on received text messages, you cannot.

I'm specifically looking for a small/normal-sized smartphone that doesn't run iOS, as I need features from my phone not available on iOS (specifically, running automations automatically)

I think as most people moved to using a phone as their primary computing device (no HNers, you're not most people), the size pretty much settled on 6-7" as being in the best range to accommodate what people use them for.

It’s not an original thought, but this a major contributor to the enshittification.

Enshitification of what?

The web, and social media in particular.

The size of phones is a major contributor to enshittification? I don’t understand

No, the majority of people using phones as their only computers.

I think the joke was "people discovered we could watch porn on it", but you're on to something. Streaming media on a phone or gaming is viable for most urban/suburban areas so most people can get by with just a smartphone if the screen is big enough.

I call it the Grandma Test. Within reason, whatever my grandma is currently doing or capable of using on her devices is “the norm.” if she struggling to do it, then it’s not mainstream. There’s obviously exceptions to this rule, but it’s been working pretty well for me.

Unless I'm mistaken, you can actually edit the preferences of the automation to avoid the notification. Click on the automation in the Shortcuts app, then choose "Run immediately" instead of "Run after confirmation". This works on my SE.

Still a good question though!

Yeah, but seems to only be available for specific things. Apple has decided that some of the "automations" shouldn't be allowed to run automatically without user interaction.

For example, what I'm trying to setup is forward specific SMS messages to a specific Telegram channel (or just do a HTTP POST, worst case scenario), and for those flows, Apple require user interaction to run automatically.

Give it a try yourself to setup a automation like that :)

Not an on device solution, but generally for that sort of thing id use an SMS messaging service; ClickSend or Twilio for instance.

Can’t speak to the specifics of what you want to do WRT Telegram.

But as a programmer, it’s not something I’d be attempting on-device.

Unless of course it absolutely had to be done with my own main number that is tied to my eSIM….

But at that point I’d begin questioning my life choices that led me to this situation! ;-)

Yeah, I understand where you're coming from, but I don't want to route these messages through unrelated 3rd parties. Just want it to go from my telecom provider > my phone > Telegram Group. And yes, it is messages arriving to my main phone number, fwiw.

Everything is working as a "Shortcut", the only thing missing is Apple allowing me to run this shortcut automatically without user interaction. Which for some annoying reason is missing. If I just can get rid of the step where I absolutely have to interact with the phone to trigger the "automation"...

My guess would be that they are chary of phones being used as spam relays.

You can use the Scriptable app to run arbitrary JavaScript via an automation without user interaction. As an example, I use this to test if I have functional internet when I leave my house: if I forget to top up my mobile plan, I’ll hear a voice say, “you are not online.”

https://apps.apple.com/app/id1405459188

> You can use the Scriptable app to run arbitrary JavaScript via an automation without user interaction

What are some examples of how you can trigger it without user interactions?

I looked through the docs and found nothing about triggering stuff when receiving SMS text messages for example.

I'm a small person so naturally I want a small phone. I also still see my phone as a limited communication device first and foremost. Literally none of my use cases benefit from a large screen. It could even be greyscale and non-touch for all I care — it's been this many years and typing on a touchscreen is still an exercise in frustration for me. The only requirement is that it should be capable of running Android apps. I need those to function in the society, sorry.

The problem is that every single phone out there is made for people for whom their phone is their primary, or maybe only, gateway to the internet. This means watching videos on it and all that stuff. There don't seem to be any phones for people like me, who don't even remember they have a phone most of the time when they're home.

No need to be small. At 173cm I think I am average and when running or cycling, I constantly have to struggle to accommodate my already too large Pixel 6a somewhere.

Give us back 5 inch phones.

I also prefer smaller phones so I got the iPhone 13 Mini before it becomes impossible to obtain.

We're in the minority, though. The market has spoken, and it prefers larger phones.

Apple dropped the Mini line after two models and replaced it with the largest screen ever (Max line) because the Mini wasn't selling.

I think people prefer larger screens and larger batteries over the ability to use the phone with one hand.

The Zenfone 10 is one of the few decent "small" phones from a major brand: https://youtu.be/6aK407STsGA

Please note that the market is not just the consumers. Companies make larger phones because they expect to make more money because they expect to sell more because everyone buys these phones because they're what's on offer - a self-reinforcing cycle.

Doesn’t that mean a company could gain huge market share and profits by being the only one with a smaller phone?

I don’t buy your self-reinforcing cycle. I think it’s pure demand — consumers want bigger phones, scale economies mean small phones cost more per unit to produce, nobody wants to make an unprofitable niche device.

I'd say the self reinforcing element is a bigger phone allows for a bigger battery and other bigger numbers. It's easier to market bigger numbers so that's what gets prioritised.

Re consumer demand. Would most care? I would guess 50% of phone buyers only actually use basic functionality, but then those aren't the ones spending loads for the latest model, so that would seem to be more fashion/economics, rather than demand per se.

False. Even when smaller phones are on offer, people still don't buy them and prefer the larger ones.

> the Mini wasn't selling

Yes it was.

Per [1] the Mini makes up about 3% of iPhone sales. Per [2] there are about 200M iPhones sold every year. That means there were about 6 million iPhone minis sold in one year. Per [3] the Google Pixel sold about 10 million units in one year, and that was a record sales year. The iPhone Mini alone sold almost half as much as Google's entire Pixel lineup!

Small phones do sell. If someone reputable made one, they could completely corner a market almost as big as the Google Pixel.

[1] https://9to5mac.com/2022/04/21/cirp-iphone-13-best-selling-l...

[2] https://www.demandsage.com/iphone-user-statistics/

[3] https://www.gizchina.com/2023/10/08/google-pixel-phones/

Surely 3% of sales is weak from Apple's POV. They aren't comparing themselves with Honor or whoever.

Neither am I. I'm comparing it to Google Pixel, which is surely a decent competitor!

We're in the minority. The market has spoken: people prefer coke to Club Mate.

Yet, somehow, Club Mate didn't get the memo and is still being manufactured.

Club Mate is massively popular here in Berlin.

iPhone 13 Mini is the last normal-sized phone made. Despite what others say, it did actually sell well in terms of absolute units, more than most also-ran Android phones that somehow manage to still stay on the market. I'm hoping they bring it back for an every-other-year model or something like that.

For Android, which is my preference personally, there has not been a normal-sized phone since like the Pixel 3A in 2019, and even that was getting pretty huge. There is https://smallandroidphone.com/ , but it seems like a dead project.

Yeah, too bad iPhone requires iOS, otherwise I'd easily continue using the hardware, it really is the highest quality hardware. But the software is so far behind in quality, stability and polish that I just can't live with it anymore.

Yeah, I switched to iPhone solely for the Mini form factor, and I was very surprised how primitive and buggy iOS feels compared to Android, given each platform's reputation. Would love to go back to Android!

Same here... Initially I used Android for many years, and after hearing people raving about the iPhone for more years + Apple finally releasing a "Mini" format after getting bigger and bigger, I jumped on the wagon.

I too was surprised about how shitty the software is compared to how excellent the hardware is.

Well, I guess nothing is perfect...

I agree and it’s incredibly ridiculous that we’ve reached a point where phones don’t even fit our hands.

If you disagree, touch the bottom of your screen, then touch the top, I promise it wasn’t effortless.

Steve Jobs was very careful about designing the first iPhone to mold into our hands. It’s no surprise they immediately got bigger once he passed.

Unfortunately, people want it because as you say “bigger is better”. Call me elitist, but they don’t know what they want. A phone isn’t the size of a tv. Making it 2 inches larger doesn’t really solve anything when it’s already so small.

Same goes for reducing the bezel, another obvious “solution” that wasn’t needed. The bezel was meant to give your palm some room so it doesn’t touch the screen.

When you see people put handles on the back of their phones, we have a problem with function. Steve Jobs is rolling in his grave at the sight of these flip flop phones.

> touch the bottom of your screen, then touch the top, I promise it wasn’t effortless

This is painful even on an iPhone Mini.

I think phones are the main device for most people now, so they want the biggest screen as possible, like other people here are saying. It's where people consume stuff and entertain themselves, so I guess it's understandable.

There's a project [0] that hopefully will bring a good compact Android smartphone to the market, maybe it will be an alternative for people who want a compact phone.

I'm also looking for an Android smartphone to replace my iPhone SE (2016), and the Asus Zenfone 9/10, S23/S24 and Moto Edge 30 are some of the "compact" options I'm considering.

[0]: https://smallandroidphone.com/

I’m also an iPhone mini user and frustrated that the line didn’t bear more fruit, so to speak.

I think people wanted bigger screens, but what they wanted more was battery life which requires that you scale up the phone.

Personally, I was really happy with the original iPhone size of 3.5”.

Also, the vast majority of people consume rather than create, and their phone is now their primary device for everything - communication, whatever flavour of social media, banking... For tapping and staring at something for N hours a day, clearly people prefer the larger screen.

(Unfortunately my XZ1 Compact broke, still just the right size!).

> I think people wanted bigger screens

I wanted a smaller phone. I'd be happy to compromise on screen size if the phone was small enough for me to use with in a single hand. Unfortunately the Mini was never small enough so I never saw the reason to compromise on screen size.

I suspect a lot of people who want smaller phones are in this category.

https://youtu.be/mrepi7s66Jg?si=QDMRxQ30-8ik_5Qe @ 5:12

"…if I wanted an iPad, I would buy an iPad."

My favorite review of the iPhone mini.

I think that they’re simply too small for heavier usage. Imagine the average person uses their phone for 5 hours per day. An iPhone 13 mini is too small for that much usage. When I enabled the myopia warning that alerts me when I’m holding the phone too closely, I started receiving the warnings every time I used it. Turns out I have been holding the phone too close all of my life!

Naturally, I increased the font size to be more suitable. This created two problems:

1. The phone now shows significantly less information and is nearing the point of annoyance for me. 2. Many websites outright break when I increase the font size to a suitable size.

Better css would fix these issues, but the web is full of poor css implementations (including hn). If I were to only use my phone for calls and the occasional text for about 30 minutes per day, an iPhone 5S would be perfect. But using it for more than that makes it clear that I should probably get a larger phone to protect my eyesight and enable a better experience.

Unfortunately, my next phone will be larger to make it more useful. I don’t use any form of social media. Only texting and some web browsing. I would consider myself a light phone user. I’d have to imagine these annoyances would be worse for someone that uses their phone more heavily than me. Maybe one day I’ll be able to use iMessage from my Linux desktop and use a small phone again. Until that happens, I’m pursuing a larger phone size.

It's the same for cars here in the UK, where what used to be small cars are getting larger with each new release. The current crop of Minis are larger than a lot of large family cars used to be.

People say it's due to "what the market wants", but it's more to do with what the car manufacturers decide they want people to buy, advertising it appropriately.

With you on wanting a small phone, though.

In other news, RIP the MPV market. You were great family cars.

Car models have been getting bigger and bigger for 50 years. Probably because they want to show 'improvement' over the prior model, but we've had cars coming in to fill the void.

Eg, the golf used to be a small car, now there's multiple models smaller than it.

Yes, a similar pattern can be seen in Toyotas, where the RAV4 became enormous, and the C-HR filled the gap of a similarly sized SUV. No. 1940[0] from xkcd comes to mind.

[0] https://xkcd.com/1940/

I loved my 12 Mini, but by not including it in the Pro line (better materials, camera, screen, etc) I feel they never gave it a full chance - signaling from the outset "smaller is less". I desperately want to go back to the smaller size, but without sacrificing on the other dimensions.

Launching in fall 2020 when physical stores were closed didn't do it any favors either, the main thing going for it was how it fits in your hand but you can't try it

Love mine, lightning port doesn't work anymore and it'll be coming up on 4 years old when the next iPhones release, but I'd hate to replace it with a larger one

Sony makes awesome smallish phones...but they're expensive. [Marques Brownlee]https://www.youtube.com/@mkbhd) regularly talks about wanting smaller phones.

Asus' Zenfone line is also pretty appealing -- 5.9" screen on the most recent iteration.

5.9" is huuuge: https://phonesized.com/compare/#1863,2261

Jelly 2 - Small Android 11 Phone (General)

https://www.unihertz.com/products/jelly-2

The most incredible thing for me is that Apple decided to call these huge phones "mini".

Sadly there hasn't been a "normal sized" (for me) phone in many years. I didn't buy the mini because it was still too big. I'm now eyeing the flip phones, once they (samsung or apple, I don't care) release one with flagship specs (to accompany the flagship price) I might go for that...

The small Chinese companies tend to be less affected by marketing trends and just make what users really want. That's why they still have plenty of models with small screens, removable batteries, expandable storage, etc.

Can you link to some of these "plenty of models"? My experience is they're all running ancient Android versions and have no 5G support.

Go to Aliexpress or Taobao and look around. Yes, you're unlikely to get latest Android or 5G but the original ask was for smaller-screened phones that are still being sold.

I want Iphone SE with a camera of the pro. Camera is the only thing I don't want to be crippled, everything else I don't care.

Rumor is that the Google Pixel 9 series releasing this fall will include a "regular" size version of the Pro model with all the features of the larger model.

It will supposedly be about the size of the regular Pixel 7 which is reasonable size but not as compact as something like the Pixel 2.

I hope that if it sells well it'll encourage them to make more premium small phones.

I daily drive a OnePlus 11, but I really miss my Pixel 3's compact size.

I still have my P3 but am not into using tech until it dies. For me I just accepted mega phones won.

Yes, I know the Pixel 8 is smaller, but I tried it and screen size aside it's not as good as my OP11.

My SO is happy with her Sony of a smaller size but when I do anything with that phone I feel like it's sort of lacking in capabilities compared to the phones I typically use. We don't really have the same usecases for a device though.

Their X Compact line of phones was great with high-end SoCs and incredible battery life but unfortunately, they haven't released any new phones in that line for several years so they're pretty dated now.

Is Asus a shady brand?

https://www.asus.com/us/mobile-handhelds/phones/zenfone/zenf...

I wish I could have a smaller phone, specifically the size of an S10+, but with all the new & fancy stuff slapped on top.

I love the size of the phone and it fits very well but my current S20 Ultra feels too big for me at times.

Smartphones are general purpose computers. Screen real estate is valuable for many popular applications. The majority of people decided bigger screens are more valuable than the ability to text with one hand. Big phones started selling better than small ones and manufacturers catered to the market.

Sorry, but you are part of a vocal minority who prefers small phones. Sort of like the group that prefers physical keyboards... or headphone jacks... or IR blasters... or FM radio... or expandable storage... etc etc.

I don't think you can state phones are general purpose computers, and then complain about the 'vocal minority' that want the things that enable that.

Try writing a document or do some programming on a phone. If it's a general purpose computer, a physical keyboard is a reasonable expectation.

> I don't think you can state phones are general purpose computers, and then complain about the 'vocal minority' that want the things that enable that.

I did not complain about anyone. I belong to several of those minority groups myself. But they are without a doubt vocal minorities.

> Try writing a document or do some programming on a phone. If it's a general purpose computer, a physical keyboard is a reasonable expectation.

You can program on a phone. It isn't a good experience but nothing about the term "general purpose" suggests it is good at everything. I could point out how my desktop is awful at taking pictures or phone calls, but it's still considered a "general purpose" computer. Form factor has nothing to do with it.

I would define 'general purpose computer' as something that is capable of doing general arbitrary computing.

I wouldn't class calling or photo taking as general computing in that sense as the important bit is special hardware.

Programming is painful hardware wise (no keyboard) and locked down. I can't run an arbitrary compiler and run that binary.

So I wouldn't class it as a general purpose computer because I can't do arbitrary things with the hardware.

They didn't sell well enough. Simple as that.

I'm sticking with this iPhone mini until they no longer support it with iOS updates.

…or until you age out of the “small font sizes are great” demographic. Ask how I know :)

I think the problem is not just eyesight. I think it's that for a lot of people now their phone is their primary, and often only, computing device.

Being a computer person I have many devices. My phone is only used when I'm out and about. And I only use it for out and about sort of tasks. I don't watch videos on it. I rarely use it to write or read anything of significant length. Therefore, it's more important for me that the phone be small and portable.

If my phone was the only device I had, I would absolutely get the biggest highest spec phone. Maybe even one of those folding ones. All kinds of tasks I currently do using other devices with very large screens would be a tremendous pain on my iPhone mini.

Maybe the reason they didn't sell was because the smaller variant was always a subpar device (and that was not due to it's size).

No shit it didn't sell.

If I could get a trustworthy AOSP ROM for the Unihertz Jelly 2, I'd have one in a heartbeat. But alas.

For what it's worth, there is a GSI if you poke around -- it's not AOSP and doesn't appear any source is available, so...yeah

I sort of use Apple Watch as a small phone when I don’t want to lug around the iPhone

Can you say more about this? I've been thinking of ditching phones completely and just having the Apple Watch (currently I have no Apple products).

Though I think I'd miss the ability to tether, which the Apple Watch doesn't do (understandably with such a small battery).

> Why did they disappear? And why is no company no longer offering these sizes and instead go for "bigger is better"?

I don't think it's that hard - 'the market' doesn't want them. Not enough people bought them to warrant companies splintering their product lines for them.

The crazy thing is, the iPhone mini sold enough to be a $billion dollar product. Most companies would shit themselves for that kind of business. But at Apple's scale, they didn't think the 1 or 2 percent was enough.

Pick another phone maker besides Samsung and Apple and I bet the mini sold more than their products during the same period mini was sold. Google Pixel? Probably. Asus' phones? Probably.

You are correct. The iPhone Mini sold more units than most Android phones do. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39104057

I feel Sony is only option left if you mostly care about width...

Not sure, but a qin f21 pro phone could be an option as well.

People don't like them and they don't sell

Came here to lament Sony like everyone else, but instead:

Consequences matter, so what is the consequence of having a screen that is just a bit too large?

- inadvertent swipes right, lands you on the Google Home page, but you can simply disable this or use a different launcher.

- can't fit as many thumb-addressable QS options, but Google-flavored android makes these larger, also provides one-handed mode gesture

- need to grip phone so that the corner extends beyond the palm of your hand, some phones have the camera on a lip that the index finger can use as a lip to hold

Obviously we're all ad supported entertainment focused media monsters so, screens aren't going to be smaller, you're just going to have to adapt