The humble brilliance of Italy's moka coffee pot (2018) | Hacker News Reader

The humble brilliance of Italy's moka coffee pot (2018)

atlasobscura.com

272 pointsBerislavLopac252 comments

To me, the Moka pot is always a funny (and reliable) example of design and the many ways people make their own interpretations of it. Ask any friend to describe how, exactly, they make coffee with it. There should only be one way, and everyone is sure that their way is the correct one. Yet, there are so many variations of this, it's crazy. From grind size (more coarse than espresso, less than filter), to grams and fill-level (brush off, or exact measure?), to those still convinced it needs tamping (it does not!). Then temperature (as hot as, gas stove burn-it-with-fire, or slow-build) and even lid philosophy (open while it heats, open after it has started bubbling) — and when to close it off, after the first bubbles, once it's been bubbling, until the water is gone, etc. Also, what beans and roast profile? Espresso? Crema? Filter?

Nuances, sure, but every single time I ask someone about their Moka pot, they have a slightly different way of using it than I have.

Case in point: I fill water up to just touching/under the valve, then use a medium-coarse grind with dark espresso beans, with enough coffee to fill the basket level, no tamping brushing off or touching. Then heat it hard on gas if available, leave the lid closed while it builds up but open immediately with the first bubble and put it off the heat. Let it continue for another half minute and then pour. And you?

Most likely you've seen this, but it should be mentioned James Hoffman has spend some time experimenting with the Moka pot and has published his preferred technique on youtube [1]

[1]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfDLoIvb0w4

There's also a fantastic Youtube video in a neutron beam facility of a Moka pot, in which you can see the full process of brewing. The water and plastic handle appear 'black' as hydrogen scatters neutrons so strongly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VESMU7JfVHU

There is also this gem of a website, where you can explore a 3D CT-scan of a Bialetti moka pot, to see all its features and flaws:

https://www.scanofthemonth.com/scans/coffee

Their scan viewer software now works on mobile devices: https://app.lumafield.com/project/a5a9c7ef-d1c9-426e-9e2a-63...

Wow, it's really a shame about the new Bialetti pots. I've recently gotten one off Amazon and now I'm not sure if I should instead hunt for a used old model.

Who knows if it wasn't counterfeit?

I always wished they would make a transparent one

Pretty sure I saw someone with a glass one on youtube, but it wasn't as exciting to watch as I'd hoped. I'd still like one though.

Found the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7FoqR9oCfI

Too bad Scotty never time-traveled back to our 1984 with the formula for transparent aluminum.

Not sure of the year, but aluminium oxynitride exists (edit: and more commonly, sapphire).

I've seen one that had a glass lid that allowed you to view inside the top.

You knew it was working when the glass fogged up.

Seems like there are models with a transparent top (low pressure part), ex: https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Crystal-Glass-Top-Stovetop-Es...

You might want some blast protection if you use a completely transparent one due to the explosion risk and flying glass pieces.

I really like that video. However, I think this could have been done with X-rays by adding heavy salts (ex. sodium metatungstate or vastly more hazardous thallium salts) to the water or using a heavy organic liquid (ex. diiodomethane).

However, if you have a neutron imaging beamline you probably are motivated to make a cool demo.

Of course James has a recipe for this.

I would not put too much stock into James Hoffman's confident assertions. He claims to be able to taste difference between different coffee grinders - but doesn't do it in a blind test.

He has done plenty of blind tests on his channel.

I trust a lot of what he says, but not everything. He has an interest in the machines and his own career, not just in the coffee. Trust but verify.

Of course, same goes for any other coffee-expert-content-creator (eg Lance Hedrick) or really any other expert in any other field.

> I trust a lot of what he says, but not everything. He has an interest in the machines and his own career, not just in the coffee. Trust but verify.

Yes, as an example his lack of reviews on eureka grinders is very noticeable in comparison videos.

Just tried out his suggestions combined with some of the comments there (what I tried: put boiling water in the moka to start, pre-heat my electric stove while preparing the moka, use a full but not overly full basket, and avoid sputtering by actively controlling the applied heat with the lid open and taking the moka off the heat the moment sputtering starts) and my impression was that it makes a noticeable difference. Specifically, I had always just accepted that moka coffee is fast and easy but bitter, and this was much less bitter: I preferred it and I think I'll keep these changes.

YMMV of course!

I'm right there with you on all those things!

One thing to add: If you want to think even less in the morning. Just weigh the beans and water with a kitchen scale. 18 gr of beans, 160gr of (boiling) water (basically a 1:9 ratio regarding on the size of your basket).

The CT scan page https://www.scanofthemonth.com/scans/coffee mentions that detail too: Take it off the heat before the volcanic sputtering phase at the end; this only adds bitterness to your coffee..

Maybe that's exactly what you noticed. I cannot think how starting from already hot water vs. letting the water warm up and boil from the stove, could make any noticeable difference.

> I cannot think how starting from already hot water vs. letting the water warm up and boil from the stove, could make any noticeable difference.

The idea is just that the beans don't get cooked as much by the heat ahead of the brew phase. For me it's made a big difference.

I also think there might be more of a heat gradient in the moka itself, i.e. the upper compartment including the vertical tube might end up with a lower temperature throughout the process.

Many people, including myself can taste day and night difference from result of different grinders. You can easily verify this by variance of particle distribution of different grinders.

Some people claim to be able to tell the difference between red and white wines with ease, but fail to do it when red dye is added to the white.

The difference between quality grinders is super easy to replicate. Buy some freshly roasted beans from a specialty coffee roaster, then have the shop ground half and grind the other half at home on your home grinder of choice.

High-end (specialty coffee standard) commercial grinders produce a tighter variance amongst the ground coffee particles which leads to a way more even extraction, i.e. a more pleasant and balanced taste in the cup. Perhaps the most common model is the Mahlkonig EK43S, which is a ~$3,000 grinder.

Home grinders are far cheaper, in the range of ~$75–300 or so for popular ones, and tend to produce a broader variance of particle sizes which leads to big particles ("boulders") getting overextracted, thus imparting bitter flavors; and small particles ("fines") getting underextracted, thus imparting sour flavors. The higher quality and lighter roast your coffee is, the more noticeable the impact of the grinder is.

You don't have to take James Hoffmann's word for it at all, this is standard issue coffee grinder theory 101, which any specialty coffee professional would agree with. It's also easily testable at home, even if you haven't experiencend it in an experiment context. I took a short class on the theory of coffee once and the major experiments were comparing the same beans ground across different grinders (and then with or without use of a coffee sieve for further refinement) and the same beans across different brewing methods and techniques. The particle size distribution from the grinder is one of the most important variables in the whole process.

Only double-blind tests have any validity and those are not "super easy" to do oneself.

The famous “coffee for people who don’t like coffee” video that has been a running gag in Italy for months!

What is the context of the gag? I like James Hoffman and his videos.

Italian households throw the thing on the stove without such meticulous (and time expensive) ceremony every morning, so this falls under the classic “American can’t cook” gag

I don’t even know if the guy is American, just anecdata from my Facebook feed

He's English, not American, and became a coffee influencer like this after winning the World Barista Championship in 2007. This is, in fact, a "world" championship, not like the MLB World Series which is really just American. It's been held in the USA a few times, but also all over Europe, Australia, Japan, and Korea. Making coffee meticulously is hardly something specific to Americans or even typical of Americans. It's very weird you would even have this stereotype when the very word "barista" is Italian, the WBC itself started in Norway, and Europe in general is usually far more associated with fine cuisine and caring about craftmanship in food and drink than the US, which is associated with hot dogs, light beer, and deep frying everything in butter.

>the very word "barista" is Italian

now hol' up

in English, we have a suffix -ist for a person who does something: machinist, pianist, flautist. In Italian, they instead use the suffixes -isto or -ista to mean the same thing (which suggests English got "ist" from Norman French)

what does this particular -ista do? stands at a bar, that's why they are bar-isti. What's a bar, in Italy? well, "bar" not an Italian word, they borrowed the word from English.

He is obsessive and meticulous about coffee, that's kind of the whole point of his channel. I came to mostly the same conclusions as him through trial and error while trying to get consistently rich coffee with it. It's actually quite easy to end up with something that tastes burnt, obscenely bitter, or metallic. It tastes delicious when you get it just right, but it can end up tasting considerably worse than good old set it & forget it drip coffee if you are careless/clueless.

Kind of weird this became a meme, since Italians are stereotypically supposed to really care about good coffee. My best guess is that for many households, the Bialetti is their version of Mr Coffee that they fire up in the morning to get out of the house before work and don't have the time or inclination to care about how it tastes. If they want something fancy and delicious that's what the 50 cafes within walking distance are for. That or their following a sub-optimal family tradition for how to brew with it.

Anyway, I only watched the video once but from what I recall the only thing that seemed especially over the top was the trivet to buffer the heat of the stove.

That is way more than I'll ever do. I just use regular fresh ground coffee, some water, half and half, a teaspoon of sugar and you're good. He's right about lowering the heat though, but you can get 90% the same result with just fresh ground coffee and low heat, you don't need a ton of gadgets. I prefer the stainless steel pot to avoid aluminum leeching.

"It depends". Someone who prefers a slightly bitter coffee might enjoy slight tamping that slows the rate the water passes through the grounds and creates bitterness.

But your point is accurate: everyone has a slightly different way. I'd argue irrespective of the exact variation, the Moka Pot outperforms most other mechanisms for making coffee (other than cafe espresso machine).

Funnily, if you'd asked me at 6-monthly intervals for the ideal way to use a Moka Pot, I'd have given slightly different answers (i.e. each time I would have thought I'd mastered the technique, but by doing little experiments, and sometimes accidentally, I'd found slight improvements over the years).

Coffee nerd tip: if you want more bitterness, you're probably better off using less coffee for the same amount of water ("weakening" it a bit).

If you tamp it, there's a greater chance that the water breaks an easier path through the coffee and doesn't flow evenly through all of it, which tastes worse.

Moka is not supposed to be tamped, as it will build up pressure and trigger the pressure relief valve.

> But your point is accurate: everyone has a slightly different way. I'd argue irrespective of the exact variation, the Moka Pot outperforms most other mechanisms for making coffee (other than cafe espresso machine).

I'd expect it depends on your coffee preference. I haven't ventured into the home espresso side yet, but regularly use pretty much everything else: SCA-approved drip machine, AeroPress, cold brew, french press and pourover. Of those, my favourite results have been pourovers with light roasts (bean-dependent, of course) - isn't a Moka Pot going to give you notably different flavour profiles?

I find that the Moka Pot makes insufferably bitter coffee, regardless of the recipe. I have two and I tried everything to make it work, but the result is revolting.

This happened to be when I started out because the grounds I used were too fine. Try a more coarsely ground coffee; it will allow the water to pass through faster and will be less bitter.

All of those variables they described are a contention point in other coffee-making methods like espresso as well.

And many of those options are "correct", but depend on your preference - do you like more concentrated coffee? Do you like it less bitter? Do you want more caffeine? Etc.

Fun fact about getting rid of bitter taste in coffee is a tiny bit of salt, a cracker or anything salty, it basically prevent the tongue from tasting bitterness:"Adding it to coffee can actually cut some of the bitterness. In fact, salting coffee is a tradition that goes back hundreds of years in countries like Turkey, Hungary, and Siberia, and more recently, it has become popular in Vietnam, where coffee is combined with whipped salted cream or milk. " I prefer cold brewing coffee to get rid of bitter taste. On another note, I have recently won a bet with someone who would not believe that the Moka Coffee Named after the Yemeni city of Mocha, with ch similar to German, unpalatalised ch.

Is there any history of molasses in coffee?

The exact same process right up to the last step. I don't leave it for 30 seconds I dump the coffee straight into a mug. I believe the bitter tastes come through at the first bubble.

Based on your technique of pouring straight into the cup, I wonder if that's the reasoning behind the "coffee fountain" kind of moka pots [1] (apart from convenience).

This instagram account has a nice collection of different ones [2].

[1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Coffee_p...

[2] https://www.instagram.com/mymokahome/

For me it's cold water up to the valve, coffee up to the brim, no tamping, maximum power on induction stove and I turn it off as soon as it starts gurgling. I know some people say you should put hot water in it so it doesn't cook the coffee as long but on induction it boils in seconds anyway.

I used to have the classic aluminium one because I prefer the geometric shape but I switched to stainless steel when I got induction and it seems higher quality in general.

I enjoy the ritual personally, it's my favorite way to make coffee.

I know some people say you should put hot water in it so it doesn't cook the coffee as long but on induction it boils in seconds anyway

I do the “Moka pot voodoo” technique [1] where you set the base on the stove and get it boiling first, then drop in the basket and screw on the lid, using a towel to protect my hand while holding the hot base. After that it’s a matter of moving the entire thing on and off the heat to carefully regulate the water temperature so that coffee only trickles out with no gushing. It makes wonderful coffee!

[1] https://youtu.be/u-PeYeiqPLU

I used to put boiling water in before I had induction but now it's so fast it's not worth the hassle of dealing with the hot pot.

I start with hot water from the kettle, which works well too

I recently switched to induction and got an all steel Alessi 9090, where the top clamps on instead of screwing like most moka pots and am loving it.

You can put it on quickly with one hand with a satisfying click, always perfectly sealed with no need to judge whether over or under tightening. I think the gasket will last longer too, because it doesn't get stray grounds twisted into it while screwing.

The one handed operation also makes it much easier if you do want to preheat or start with hot water in the base.

as an italian, your method is right. water temperature doesnt matter, like it doesnt matter when cooking pasta

Be careful about induction at max power plus a small sealed chamber..I do it at 4-5 and it takes like 5 mins

There's a safety valve if anything goes wrong, but it never even went off so far.

i think the problem is mostly in the relatively thin sheet of steel that isnt able to absorb and distribute to the water that much power in small amount of time. I prefer to go gradually, but to each one his own i guess

> Also, what beans and roast profile? Espresso? Crema? Filter?

For what it's worth, and I know I'm playing right into the funny part here, every time I talked to people who deal with coffee for a living - roasters, baristas, growers, coffee shop owners - they all said the same thing for this - espresso. They said filter is wasted here as it's intended for a different method entirely, while crema wasn't ever mentioned.

We have the same process but I add a bit more coffee so that there's a little "mound" in the middle, heat it low&slow and after the coffee starts to come out I'll sometimes pour my cup when it's about 3/4 done[0]. But you're right everyone has their own little process, I guess that's the beauty of having something a bit more flexible than "push button, receive nespresso"

[0] - The "tails" (to borrow distilling terminology) can be a little bit watery - if you do this and put it back on the hob for a few minutes you'll see that the rest of the coffee is noticeably more translucent.

A key quality of life improvement for me was to realise that you can eject the grounds from the filter funnel by putting the tube to your lips and blowing gently, ejecting the coffee puck into the food waste / compost bin. The Moka pot then becomes an almost zero-cleanup way of making coffee.

You need to do this after the pot has cooled enough that the aluminium won't burn your lips, but soon enough that the coffee grounds haven't continued to swell and wedge themselves in place.

Just make sure you're emptying it into a bin that doesn't smell too badly :D

I just knock twice on the side while keeping it face down, and it drops right into the bin even if it's still hot.

I do this too! I press my grinds down a bit with my fingers before brewing, and then at the end I get a nice puck out.

I put the tube under a weak stream of water from the sink, so the water pressure blows them out. Then I send the grounds down the drain.

This may cause your drains to clog though. Compost or trash can is better from that perspective.

Another common myth among moka machine coffe drinker is that ground coffee is somehow "good" for your drains. I believed it naively until my landlord came and unclogged a ground coffee-filled drain.

I've seen that happen, but every time there was some other obstruction in addition to the coffee: popsicle sticks, silverware, pencils, etc. Usually something too long to make it around the trap. Those things will eventually glob up with hair or worse and clog the drain anyway.

In my experience if you wash grounds down the drain with plenty of water there's never any problem.

> blowing gently, ejecting the coffee puck

This works similarly well with the Flair brand espresso maker filter cup -- though suggested nowhere in Flair's written or video instructions. Too undignified an act I suppose for prospective customers to imagine themselves performing every morning in future.

Should try that. You definitely don't want to tap it (denting it will lead to a bad seal).

Every morning I walk out and fling the grounds into the front yard.

I've tapped to eject the spent puck for many years and it is not a problem. Maybe if you were aggressively whacking it against something much harder than the metal funnel it might become an issue, but against a hand or some soft plastic it's not an issue at all; there's been no change to the seal or shape.

I just drop it directly in the compost pile.

> There should only be one way, and everyone is sure that their way is the correct one

I'm 100% sure the way I do it is correct, and that this is the only correct way to do it: put water in the bottom, coffee grounds in the filter, close the whole thing, put it on the stove top, wait for it to brew.

The rest is details, even if we can obviously optimise the shit out of those details.

More interestingly the optimum for the rest of the details is probably quite different from person to person. It's unlikely we like exactly the same coffee so even if we optimise very aggressively we'll probably end up at different optima.

Water matters. Grind size matters. Compression matters if you want more bitterness. Temperature matters. But yeah, that's pretty much the method, lol.

Also, the timing of the temperature: I've heard of good results if you start heating the water before assembling the unit, so you don't apply as much direct pressure to the grinds.

When I first started brewing French press, a (somewhat coffee snobbish) friend of mine told me that he brews his French press for exactly 4 minutes and 10 seconds. He insisted the extra 10 seconds are very important.

I just go with 4 minutes.

Patience is a virtue.

Coffee snob + French press is a humorous mix to me. I don't mind using one from time to time, but the poor filtration and rapidly dropping brew temperature are obvious drawbacks, and it is certainly not a fine coffee experience.

He must also plunge and pour at a consistent rate, since the water is still in contact with the grounds?

This was my take on the description you're replying to as well. I couldn't help but think "There should only be one way to pour water into a glass...Some people keep the glass level while pouring, some tilt at a slight angle; some use a faucet, others a pitcher..." etc.

Another comparison: the details of every other coffee brewing device.

If you like the coffee you're getting, then it's all good. I mean, that's all that matters.

I think what you're pointing out is often an indicator of good design. In terms of robustness but also the variation in interaction and use the design facilitates.

> Case in point: I fill water up to just touching/under the valve...

That's precisely how I do it, and I was taught to do it this way by my mother as a kid, so you know at least two people who do it like you.

same here, but no mother, just Italian roommates.

no higher than the valve, since it may lead to overpressure

I'm pretty sure that's what the instructions in the box say

It ain’t rocket science.

I put water in. Sometimes I’m below the valve sometimes not.

Put pre ground coffee in. Sometimes I fill it all the way. Sometimes I leave a little room. Whatever.

Blast it with heat until it’s blowing air. Donezo.

I use Lavazza Crema e Gusto. It’s a robusta blend so very forgiving because it’s gonna be a little bit bitter no matter what. I always add some sugar so this isn’t a problem.

Also lol at “dialing in” a moka. Give me a break.

The reason why I use a moka is because I can get a good coffee without fussing.

Yeah we all have our ways. To me it makes coffee that is too strong (even though I kinda obsess over how I use my moka pot). And I'm lazy, so although I'm a huge coffee drinker and although I appreciate good coffee, I don't bother anymore...

I bought a full automated coffee machine. I pour grain in it and coffee comes out. It's way better than Nespresso capsules or "Senseo" etc.

Pro tip for for the rich and lazy people who want good coffee: just buy a JURA full auto coffee machine (it's a brand from Switzerland) and call it a day. They're pricey but they do the job very well.

> There should only be one way

Why exactly?

mittermayr, are you my long lost twin?

My technique is to use an Aeropress. :-) Faster, easier to clean, more variables available to control.

Our Bialetti stainless Moka pot hasn't been used in years.

BTW, Serious Eats thinks there's no one perfect recipe:

https://www.seriouseats.com/best-moka-pots-7570691#toc-what-...

From what I've seen in my time in Italy, Italians pour water in, add pre ground beans and heat on the stove. Never seen them worry about the details.

Exactly my thoughts. The Bialetti wouldn‘t have been the success it is if you had to make a science out of it.

I was always ad hoc with my Moka pot. Just up to the valve with water and fill the basket with grounds. If I'm using a Moka pot, I'm okay with a range of strong flavor. Since getting an espresso machine, I don't use it very much anymore. These days, I'm mostly using a Technivorm Moccamaster in the morning and a Gaggia Classic Pro for espresso drinks. A v60 is a love of mine as well when I get some new, fresh beans.

exactly like you apparently.

i have the stainless steel one and dont like that theres teflon in it.

This is the thing that pisses me off a bit. You go to Italy, get a coffee from a Moka, it's going to taste dark, very roasted, bitter.

Then you have people that try to push their ideal coffee ideas to people saying that Italians don't know how to make coffee. If that's the case, then isn't it an extreme coincidence that the Bialetti was an Italian product???

I've seen tons of videos and comments about making the perfect coffee with a Moka, and most of them (save for James Hoffmann, where he says you should play around and find which parameters will make the coffee good for you), they try to push this stupid idea that "oh, if your coffee is bitter it's trash". Don't they understand that people have different tastes? For example, US coffee is terrible and tastes just like a very watered down coffee.

I've grown up drinking dark roasted coffee that have an intense flavor (not as intense as the Portuguese one, as that's literally a very black coffee). Anything not in this range tastes bad to me. I have a Moka at home and the thing that annoyed me a bit when I started brewing my coffee is that it had a reminiscent bitter taste that I definitely don't remember dripped coffee or espresso coffee having it. Since then, I watched James' video and decided to give a try to his techniques and some of them actually helped remove this strong, bitter flavor at the end.

Just to make sure people understand, it's not the bitterness of the coffee itself, but it's a bitterness that feels like it's artificial, when you "burn" the coffee in the Moka.

Another thing I strongly disagree with so-called coffee connoisseurs is that they say that Bialetti's claim that the Moka shouldn't be cleaned is a myth. This is like saying you shouldn't listen to your car's manufacturer to go to the mechanic every X thousand kilometers, but should rather go earlier, because, sure, a random dude on the internet knows more than the engineer who designed the car.

FWIW, Bialetti says you Moka pot shouldn't be cleaned with anything else other than running water, if you need to remove limestone you can use vinegar or another product, but then you have to brew 3 coffees before the Moka is ready for daily use again.

As Italian I totally confirm and relate :)

> There should only be one way

Should there? I imagine different people have different characteristics they prefer in their coffee, so different methods of using the pot would be expected and proper.

The main issue is that it’s actually fairly difficult to brew a good coffee with a Moka machine. If the stove is too hot, all the water will go through the coffee and then the whole thing will boil and spurt, and the coffee will be terrible. If the stove is too low, not all the water will go up and you’ll end up with not much coffee. And you have to stay close to be sure to not screw it up, which is annoying cause it takes a few minutes to boil.

It’s also annoying to clean, and you need to cool it down before making a second pot. If you cool it down too fast, you’ll create a vacuum, and you won’t be able to unscrew the thing.

I am not sure it works on induction stoves, and on gas stoves, you often have to add a little steel thing to hold the pot in place.

It was a smart and cute little device when it was invented, but let’s be honest, it’s highly inconvenient, and it’s not making a particularly good coffee either.

To me, it’s not the coffee snubs that should be shamed, it’s the people holding on to a less-than-ideal device, just for the sake of nostalgia.

Some of the best coffee I've ever had was from my moka pot. Now this is only 1 in a 100, but it's those few lucky brews that keep you coming back.

It doesn't work on induction stoves but induction stove converters are sold...

Bialette has a stainless steel version that does work on induction without the plate

Where do they make them? Bialetti's aluminum moka is labeled as made in Italy but their steel induction plates are labeled as made in China

There are different versions and some are made in Italy and some are made in China. The one I have is the same shape as the traditional moka pot and has a black base. It's made in Italy. There is one that has a more modern shape, and I know those are made in China. If seen other variations in color and shape, but I can't speak to those. You just have to double check the box or description. If I'm on Amazon, I go to the question section and search for the word "made" to see if anyone has mentioned where it is made.

So the black base one is steel and made in Italy? Cool, gotta check that out.

I just double checked and it is actually silver base, black top. It's called a "Bialetti - Moka Induction, Moka Pot"

> It was a smart and cute little device when it was invented, but let’s be honest, it’s highly inconvenient,

It is lower maintenance than an espresso machine and cheaper to replace. Good if you just want an espresso-sized caffeine fix.

> and it’s not making a particularly good coffee either.

On that I can agree :), but it is passable.

It's our camping coffee maker, and it's perfect for that. Tried to use it otherwise and you're right, there are much better devices these days.

If you want an upgrade check 9barista. Same form-factor as bialetti but it makes an actual espresso with right temperature and pressure. And it even comes with an adapter plate for gas burner.

I also use a moka only when camping (French press and espresso machine at home).

Why it’s great for camping: 1. Indestructible 2. Cheaply found at a garage sale (no worries if it gets lost in a pile of camping gear) 3. Takes up less volume than a French press 4. When camping, everything tastes better. Even “ok” coffee is a luxury

All this to say: a $500 device is a tough sell for camping

All this effort and then you get coffee that tastes like ash. No thanks.

Came to say this.

The biggest knock against the Moka is that a simple pour over filter is far easier to use, clean, and maintain while also making dramatically better coffee.

When it comes to both style and function, it's hard to beat a Chemex. Ubiquitous enough you can buy it in Whole Foods, and so well designed it's in the permanent collection at MoMA. If $50 is too pricey or you don't want to use glass, you can get a Melitta-style drip cone for less than $10.

Moka pot is more finnicky by far, but it also tastes way better than pour over (including Chemex) to me. I know all the tips to make good pour over. It even beats a crappy ($200-300 range) espresso machine, or at least the one I had. It's only when you get into the many hundreds of dollar range that espresso machines start to beat the pants off of a moka pot for flavor.

But pour over is far more fool proof. A bad pour over tastes much better than a bad moke pot brew, plus it's easier to not mess up in the first place.

Yeah if what you want is espresso, then a pour over setup is not going to make what you want. Technically a Moka doesn't make espresso either though. The pressure is not the same.

> It’s also annoying to clean, and you need to cool it down before making a second pot. If you cool it down too fast, you’ll create a vacuum, and you won’t be able to unscrew the thing.

I've always rinsed my moka pot immediately in cold tap water and had no issues unscrewing it during the rinse.

One of these days I do want to get a Alessi 9090 moka pot because there is no unscrewing to begin with.

> It was a smart and cute little device when it was invented, but let’s be honest, it’s highly inconvenient, and it’s not making a particularly good coffee either.

Sorry, but how much more inconvenient is it to clean the Moka compared to Nespresso or regular espresso machines? Their cleanup process is so much more complicated and requires much more time than just rinsing the Moka in water and removing any residual coffee grounds on the pot.

> It’s also annoying to clean, and you need to cool it down before making a second pot. If you cool it down too fast, you’ll create a vacuum, and you won’t be able to unscrew the thing.

That's why you should buy bigger pots. In theory, a standard sized Moka pot can make 6 cups of espresso. I had my family over and we had Moka coffee every day, with a standard sized Moka pot we could make just enough coffee for 3 people in a single brew.

I do agree that it can be tricky to get the right coffee good for your taste, but then it depends on your laziness to do the coffee. If you don't want any work at all, just buy a Nespresso, or a smart coffee machine so that you can brew your coffee from your phone.

Preheating the water in a kettle mitigates the temperature concerns and variability mentioned in your first paragraph.

For the Moka pot itself, medium heat on a stove is a good place to start, but you can easily fine tune that based on what the flow looks like after one brew.

For me it's also the process that makes it so rewarding. The grinding, packing, listening to it bubbling on the hob, the smell, the gurgle at the end and finally the pour. Then you also get a nice cup of coffee! It's an amazing "gadget".

If you enjoy coffee and haven't tried one, you're missing out.

I understand that packing the coffee in a moka pot is a real faux pas

My dictionary says

"faux pas: an embarrassing or tactless act or remark in a social situation"

I can't work out how packing the coffee in a moka pot is a faux pas.

Depending on your level of coffee nerd/snob factor, "doing it wrong" can indeed be a source of embarrassment. I don't think this is limited to coffee snobs, either.

Making & serving coffee is often a social ritual, so doing it "wrong" is a faux pas.

Ah but it is also a faux pas to apply social ritual rules outside of the formal dining areas of the house. Nobody's tamping down the ground coffee in their moka pot in the receiving room or the dining room.

If a guest is invited into the more intimate areas of the house like the kitchen, (food safety issues aside) they can no more object to what they see than a theatregoer given a backstage tour could complain that the actors are out of costume.

> If a guest is invited into the more intimate areas of the house … they can no more object to what they see than

My brother, I can assure you that this is not actually how that works in the real world

It is among the kind of people who use the terms "faux pas" and "social ritual" and who think it's possible to use a moka pot in an "embarrassing or tactless" way.

If I'm having the queen around for high tea it might be a "faux pas" to serve biscuits in a plastic packet or tub, and proper to arrange them artfully on a china plate. But if we're following that ritual, the queen absolutely does not enter the kitchen.

If on the other hand the guest wants to engage in the "we're just regular people" ritual they gain the right to enter the kitchen - but lose the right to complain when the biscuits are served straight out of the packet, or to use the term "faux pas"

The faux pas is the admission that you’ve done this amongst peers who expect you to know better (presumably; personally I’d drink caffeinated dirt)

Yes, yes it is. Source: did that once, got a minuscule amount of coffee in the top part and an about equal amount coming out of the sides.

If you are doing it at home, then there is no one to judge you.

Just make good coffee, and stop using those pod abominations.

I'm all in favour of a better word. What's a good one of for pouring the granules into the sieve and leveling it off?

"Packing" definition doesn't require stomping although it's often applied, both with coffee and suitcases.

If you pack too hard, the steam can't go through the coffee and if you're lucky, it'll come out the overpressure valve and if you're unlucky (or overfilled the water) you can blow up the pot.

They are indeed hypnotic to use, cheap and quite practical.

The trouble is I've never been able to get coffee to taste as good out of one of these compared to almost any other method of making coffee - eg. filter, espresso, French press. I'm not sure whether it's my technique, the grind I use, or something intrinsic to the process itself.

I wouldn't say it's you. Moka pots aren't great, though they are convenient-ish. ;)

As https://coffee.stackexchange.com/questions/5197/is-the-moka-... says, preheating the water might help if your results are overly bitter.

There is absolutely a technique to it. Watch Moka Pot Voodoo [1] by the Wired Gourmet. The key to getting good taste is to carefully control the temperature of the coffee puck and flow rate of water through it. Pre-boiling the water in the bottom chamber before dropping in the coffee basket and screwing on the lid solves the first problem: keep the coffee from overheating. Moving the Moka pot on and off the heat in order to maintain a gentle, steady flow solves the second.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-PeYeiqPLU

I brew on a Bialetti Venus every day with induction. I think you are doing it wrong. I find that the awful bitter tastes come late into the process accompanied by yellow colors and bubbles/splutters. Avoid at all cost.

My method: 1) Fill the basket level. You may tap/shake any clumps to get it level but do not tamp. 2) Heat it on 1000 watts until the first drop of coffee comes out the pipe and then reduce power 400w. 3) When you notice any hint of yellow, or any bubbles/spluttering or you have enough coffee then immediately dump it into a pre-warmed mug of milk. Ideally you want to stop the process before any bitterness arrives.

> I think you are doing it wrong.

I'm going to swallow my pride with stoic calm on this one in case you are correct. Thanks!

I can't believe we have the exact same process. Even the power down.

But... Black coffee for me.

That is interesting. I don't have one but was thinking of getting one of the induction-ready pots. How fine of a grind do you use?

Serious question: doesn't pouring into milk negate/mask much of any bitterness anyway?

It does, but then you're also removing part of the coffee taste.

Yes, this is exactly why many baristas will choose a darker or more full-bodied coffee for an espresso type drink vs a lighter roast for something like a pour over.

Darker roast coffees are also much more forgiving in general, since they already have some bitter taste to them in the first place.

It's still a better end product to brew the coffee or espresso well in the first place vs try to mask faults (bitterness, sourness, etc) after the fact.

I have one and have tried it quite a few times, being very careful to follow whatever procedure I'd been shown. To me the coffee has always tasted burned. But... I buy much better coffee now.

It is fun and I like the ceremony, so I'm going to check out the video someone linked to above.

All I know is, buying light-roast coffee and a proper burr grinder will change the way you view coffee. I even wrote a little app to calculate the exact amount of water per gram of grounds, and then you can enter the total weight of the vessel (intended for Chemex-style pour-over) and a wet filter. It saves that and then tells you how much the whole thing should weigh when you've added enough water.

Don't forget to wash the Moka.

Coffee leaves oily residues that gives the coffee an acid taste.

"For daily upkeep, simply rinse the Moka pot under running hot water."

https://www.bialetti.com/it_en/inspiration/post/how-to-clean...

If it's oily then you'll need detergent too stop the build up. I made the mistake initially of treating my pot like a tea pot which is never cleaned. A clean with detergent every time you clean your grinder (every 1-2 bags of coffee) is probably enough.

I've read to never use detergent on a moka pot. But I've never tried it to find out! I find that simply using my fingers to brush it clean under warm water after each use seems to work just fine.

Yeah I just wash it with hot water. If I'm using it in the afternoon having made a morning coffee a few hours before, I'll just use my fingers. In the evening I'll clean it a bit more carefully, with a sponge or whatever I have.

Once I was curious if I was using my moka pot "wrong" so I checked some videos on YouTube and some of the people had immaculate Mokas. Like mine are clean, but these were near mirror-finish polished even though they'd been used.

Since most Moka appear to be made of aluminum, you would not want to put in a dishwasher (too caustic). But dish soap of the normal variety should not be a problem?

I don't think it's about damaging the metal, but how it affects the taste of subsequent brews.

I put a disassembled one in the dishwasher once, there's actually a bit of lubricant on the threads that a dishwasher will clean away and it's not the same again

can vouch for this, my small Moka Pot was never the same after my mother-in-law put it through the wash

Perhaps you've been advised to never wash the pot out of an abundance of caution that you might neglect to rinse it.

In Italy washing the coffee pot with detergent is considered a sin. The "oily" that you describe gives a better taste, and it's something that every "nonna"(grandmother) teaches you, if you want to clean your coffee pot just put it under hot water and brush it with your fingers, that's it.

Source: I'm from the south of Italy, and I have Nonnas :D

Too many sins derived from Italy to keep up with

Pasta Water

I'm Italian as well, and Italy's taste for coffee is... at least questionable. Many nonnas drink coffee made with beans roasted to a char, adding a generous amount of sugar to make it palatable. See also the similar "espresso culture" [1, in Italian].

I've seen moka pots where the upper chamber is black with oily residue accumulated in years of not cleaning it to avoid this "sin". The resulting coffee is sour and bitter and generally disgusting (but again, that's what we are often drinking normally).

Part of the idea of not cleaning it is connected to the material (aluminum), which makes a protective layer of oxide which could be damaged by scrubbing; apart from the fact that using regular dish soap is not the same as scrubbing, the oxide will reform, you would need to eat a moka every 3/4 year for aluminum absorbtion to be a problem, and the whole point falls apart when using a steel moka pot.

I recommend trying out yourself in a double-blind test instead of trusting "received ideas": does the coffee after cleaning it taste better? worse? same?

[1] https://www.gamberorosso.it/notizie/caffe-bar-inchiesta/

> Italy's taste for coffee is... at least questionable.

I don't know how one can question taste... it's taste after all! It's subjective.

What I'm hearing is that you don't like bitter espresso with sugar. This is to my taste, and yet, I'm not questioning yours :)

I agree! My point being that if taste is subjective, defining something taste-related as "wrong" (washing the moka, putting pineapple on pizza, etc.) is also silly.

Do as you please, eat whatever you will, if it diverges from tradition or received knowledge and you're happy about it go ahead and enjoy!

Ah, totally agree, perhaps I misread your comment. I'm not much for prescriptive views on food and my Italian family is full of 'em ;)

I recommend a bottle cleaning tablet. Removes oil and residue without leaving any perfumes from detergents behind.

The second best thing about the Moka pot (after the coffee) is that the inventor was buried in a large one https://qz.com/618734/italys-coffee-pot-king-was-buried-in-t...

This is amazing. Do you think they put his ashes in in the middle part where the coffee goes?

I'm afraid to ask whether he was brewed after the ceremony.

This is king shit right here.

It was the inventor's son, and not the inventor himself who was buried in a large moka pot. It's written in the article.

Not even that - it was the son of the first seller of the pot. His father bought the invention from another guy, and he made it popular.

> Luigi di Ponti designed the appliance in 1933 and sold the patent to Renato’s father Alfonso Bialetti, an aluminum vendor.

I bought my Moka pot in October of 1971 for $4.99, new. It has been in continuous use since then, with the only maintenance being the replacement of the rubber gasket. Try that with your Nespresso.

Sadly manufacturing quality has declined since manufacturing was moved out of Italy[0]. Or, Amazon commingled counterfeit inventory—impossible to know for sure unless someone buys and scans another one!

0. https://www.scanofthemonth.com/scans/coffee

A few weeks ago, I was talking to my parents about coffee percolators, which is what the Moka pot seems to be. My mom and dad have a bunch from the 1950s, which they sometimes use.

The cool thing about these percolators is they have a little glass dome that lets you see the percolation in action.

If you're unfamiliar, you can see what that looks like in this old Maxwell House commercial:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWEYjEQ75ZM

The reason I bring this up is that I asked my parents why percolators fell out of favor, and apparently drip coffee makers became popular because they are easier to clean and don't recirculate the liquid and, therefore, won't burn the coffee like a percolator might. I find this interesting because I then asked them whether their percolated coffee ever tasted bad or burnt, and they said no – and now Moka pots have become trendy.

One generation's discarded tech becomes a new generation's hipster product. (no insult intended!)

I actually don't like coffee, but I think it'd be cool if retro percolators could make a comeback.

A criticism I've heard is that percolated coffee tastes bad compared to coffee brewed with modern techniques, like drip coffee, French press, etc. I wonder if that's not something the older generation raised on it -- including my parents -- is conscious of, because there didn't used to be any other options.

What I do know is that everyone from the percolator generation seems to have transitioned away from them despite the fact that those machines are indestructible. So I'm personally inclined to believe that, while they didn't necessarily think that percolators made bad coffee, they tried filter coffee (or whatever) once and then switched away from percolators and never looked back.

> Moka pot seems to be.

No. The Moka pot is a water reservoir under a coffee filter basket atop which is screwed a collecting pot. (A home drip coffee maker also “percolates” so it isn’t useful to focus on how the water is moved) They don’t recirculate like a percolator and you answered the question why they fell out of favor.

Unsurprisingly there are already percolator hipsters. You can make a hobby out of anything.

Ah, sorry, I looked at a diagram of the Moka bot and it seemed like the same thing.

A percolator works differently from a moka pot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9avjD9ugXc

a moka pot only has the water go through the grounds once, while the percolator has the coffee go through the grounds again and again

Drip coffee makers are just better than the old percolators. Technology Connections on youtube has a video about drip coffee makers which is very good (he demos an original mr. coffee machine which has some differences vs modern machines)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp9H0MO-qS8

He also did a vid on percolators recently which I haven't watched but the thumbnail suggests its an extended rant about how they suck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9avjD9ugXc

The writer did not credit Luigi di Ponti.

https://www.seriouseats.com/moka-pot-history-coffee-maker-it...

“Bialetti didn’t invent the Moka. He just made it famous. A man named Luigi di Ponti designed the appliance in 1933 and sold the patent to Renato’s father Alfonso Bialetti, an aluminum vendor.”

I'm Dominican-American. The Dominican Republic LOVES these things. Incredibly cheap, very fast and brews super strong due to the percolation effect. Coffee via moka pot was my first exposure to coffee, and I still make coffee this way occasionally. It has a very unique "espresso but also not" flavor that tastes really great with certain types of beans.

I really enjoy my moka pot. They can take a bit of work to dial in, but for an espresso style drink I can't think of any other brew method that is as cheap and simple.

I love that the guy who invented it had his ashes put into one when he was cremated

https://qz.com/618734/italys-coffee-pot-king-was-buried-in-t...

I own a Moka pot. It's my favourite for campsite coffee. It works best with Illy Moka ground coffee. Doesn't work at all with espresso grind.

I don't particularly like the coffee that comes from it. But then I don't really like espresso either. I prefer filter coffee. But for camping it's by the most convenient option. The Aeropress comes close, but still requires pouring between vessels etc.

The trouble is, though, I bought my Moka pot years ago and I don't expect I'll ever buy another. I might replace the rubber gasket, but that's it. Unlike pods or filter etc there's no consumable parts which is wonderful but in this day convenience via consumption is what people want. And it's a win-win for that businesses selling consumables.

Moka pots are a little too fiddly for me. You need to be careful with the water temperature (and a few other variables) for it to not produce overly bitter coffee.

Since these days I'm only making coffee for myself, I almost always use the Aeropress. It's perfect every time.

A lot of people who make coffee at home get off on fiddlyness (no judgment, me too). The less reliably it makes a good cup of coffee the better it tastes if you can manage to get it to produce one.

>Moka pots are a little too fiddly for me.

Same for me, beautiful and genius design of its era that looks futuristic even today, but it's been surpassed by the Aeropress in convenience, simplicity and ease of use today. Not gonna say in taste, as the resulting taste is subjective to each drinker's preference.

Seriously, the Aeropress inventor should get a prize or something, it's just mind boggling how something so simple like an oversized syringe for coffee, hasn't been invented much earlier. Shame he sold the company to some private equity group who instantly raised prices and removed accessories from the box.

I like the Aeropress a lot, but I don't like making coffee in an object that is made of plastic. When I make filter coffee, I always use metal or glass brewers for that same reason.

I understand that glass might not be viable for Aeropress as it might break, but I hope that someone will come up with some other material, maybe metal with an insulation layer?

What's your reasoning behind avoiding coffee made in plastic? Is it a form of plasticophobia?

I think it's because of all the news on micro plastics being linked to increasing the chance of cancers.

I don't think plastic coffee brewers can be a source of micro plastics unless they're ground into dust which is far from their intended use case.

Have you ever had to replace a pan because the non-stick coating had worn out over time? That's wear and tear. It happens regularly with pans and many other plastic objects, and I have no reason to believe that it doesn't happen with coffee makers.

Also, you seem to be under the impression that microplastics contamination can only happen when mechanical wear and tear is present - but it can be caused by heating as well [1] [2]

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37624070

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36440911

The water needs to boil, so you can only do so much about the temperature. If anything, it's not fiddly enough to give you the control to make better coffee like an aeropress or a pour-over can.

Aeropress is remarkably good and consistent.

If I want to know how good a set of beans are I use an aeropress to get the baseline.

French press coffee is also great- but boring.

Pour overs are blasted finicky in comparison.

The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot (2018) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29347665 - Nov 2021 (308 comments)

The Humble Brilliance of Italy’s Moka Coffee Pot (2018) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24122182 - Aug 2020 (19 comments)

Also:

We tested 11 moka pots and both of our favorites were from the same iconic brand - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37427325 - Sept 2023 (4 comments)

I was quite annoyed when I dropped my 13yo one and broke the handle. Then I discovered they sell replacement handles! 5 minutes with a hammer and punch later and it should be good for another 13 years (or till I next drop it)

Replacement seals and "performance" filters, as well. There's quite an aftermarket on Moka parts.

Moka pot is such a wonderful little invention! If you haven't tried it yet, I highly recommend giving it a shot (pun intended).

It produces great tasting espresso (the flavor is just a little different that from an espresso machine) and it's quick to clean. It's much cheaper and practical for home use and I can't comprehend why an "average" coffee drinker would need anything else (except perhaps AeroPress, which is equally great). Espresso machines have their place, but I see them as a good solution coffee aficionados or when you brew a lot of coffee.

To be a little pedantic, espresso and moka are a different roasts and need different grinding.

Tho results are kinda similar, and in my opinion Moka is easier to get right (not to bitter).

It's closer to cezve/ibrik than to espresso in a sense that it cooks coffee at 100 degrees whereas the standard temperature for espresso is around 93, which results in more finer flavours in the coffee comparing to the basically burnt one.

I just received a Moka Pot for Christmas. After spending a few weeks taking notes and adjusting the grind size and amount I am very happy with it. I found that the 7 setting on my Induction stove leads to very little bitterness.

I think that the Moka pot on the induction range to be a nice demo of induction's benefits over gas or electric(resistant) ranges. Extremely accurate and reproducible heating, decently fast, and basically no waste heat. Instant off as well without needing to move the pot.

How are you heating the pot on induction if it's made of aluminum? Do you have a steel Moka pot?

The company sells induction ones: https://www.bialetti.com/it_en/moka-induction-rossa.html

Yep. Made the mistake of not paying attention to the material so I actually received the aluminum version. Was happy to find this and exchange for it.

I got a Moka Pot for Christmas, too! I used this is great video from James Hoffman to optimize the coffee I made with it. (for deliciousness)

In addition to the work you've done identifying the ideal grind size, he explains adding boiling water to the reservoir and other tips to avoid bitterness in the final product.

https://youtu.be/BfDLoIvb0w4?si=DfuPURs5cJ5z-Adg

I drink 3-4 cups using an espresso machine at home, but whenever I travel I find that my 3-cup moka pot makes almost as good tasting coffee consistently. Some tips:

- use a quality hand grinder; I have comandante: https://twitter.com/sridca/status/1743941231112273969

- put the Aeropress paper filter in the moka filter so you don't get grinds in your coffee.

- get freshly roasted beans.

seconding the paper filter. it perfectly fits my 3-cup pot.

it slows down the process a little, I found, which means the pot gets hotter and burns a little. I found that pouring out the coffee ASAP as it comes out -- like, let it run for a few seconds, pour, fill again, repeat until finished -- gets a better product.

but you don't get any particulate, and the flavor is much smoother. not sure if it's raising the pressure significantly enough to impact extraction, but wouldn't be surprised if it can bump it up +0.5 BAR or more.

If you are into coffee and/or moka pots, make sure not to miss the Moka Pot series by James Hoffmann: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxz0FjZMVOl1Zot3qiJ-w...

It is a series of four videos about the Moka Pot and, as is always the case with James Hoffmann, it's fascinating and interesting.

Staying at an AirBnb, I once had a Moka Pot explode, spraying boiling coffee across the room. Luckily, I was shielded by my laptop. That was a funny conversation to have with the host.

I'm not sure what exactly caused it, probably an issue with the pressure...but I've stuck to my trusty French Press ever since.

There is a valve that should prevent this from happening, it's that hexagonal thing on the side you can see in the picture.

Yeah I'm sure it's a rare occurrence, but it just turned me off from using Moka pots in favor of a Turkish coffee cezve or French press, neither of which can explode.

I've cracked a couple of french presses, though. Thin glass + cold + hot and back makes it brittle.

The solution was to not use metal spoons for stirring -- wooden or plastic chop sticks work pretty well -- but it's frustrating. By comparison the drip coffee machine or the moke pot haven't ever had a failure.

I'm sure it's a crime in some countries, but I use a single wooden chopstick for stirring. It's the right size + doesn't damage the glass.

Wooden chopsticks are fantastic for stirring! I have a double-walled stainless steel French Press and still use a chopstick for stirring.

It’s time to re-share Ubi de Feo’s “Moka Coffee 101”.

Ubi is an obsessive compulsive hacker, engineer and coffee lover (among many other things).

Check his (reasonable) opinion on cleaning the moka!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXCa5J7LcO0

This Old Tony made one on his YouTube channel several years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMrlyEreba8. It's worth a watch if you are into machining and/or welding.

I used one for decades until I got a high end gas stove. A few months of perching it on the edge and I still cooked the handle. So I got another Italian gem, a Rancilio Silvia. Now people talk about the ritual of the Moka pot but with the Rancilio there's another attraction for the engineer/mechanical tinker types: the Rancilio is built to be maintainable and so once a year (after 15) I end up taking it apart and replacing something. It turns out a lot of people do this.

One thing I heard about the problems with the company not mentioned in the article, the moka pots are very durable, once you buy one, you don't really have to replace it.

If you buy an off-brand Moka pot, make sure you can change the rubber seal. That's the only part that deteriorates over time and should be regularly replaced.

been seeing Moka Pots everywhere lately. lots of vids popping on Tik or YT. New marketing campaign?

That said, I've got 3 Moka Pots, and am a fan. Have taken the smaller ones camping and used on a fire, they're pretty small, robust, and travel well.

I use a modified James Hoffman approach with a cut down Aeropress filter inside the Moka Pot. Medium-fine grind, usually a mix of whatever is on sale -- "the house blend", and hot water.

I noticed Aldi here in the US carried an inexpensive knockoff late in their specials aisle last year.

I've had an electric one (heater in the base) for more than 15 years and it recently broke in a way that was not repairable. I really want to buy a new electric one with a reasonable volume, but they seem to be very rare. I'm thinking of brazing a heater element to a normal one, the automatic shut-off feature and consistent temperature profile is a must-have for me.

I like to put an Aeropress filter between the coffee and the integrated metal filter above, I've found it makes the coffee much smoother.

Same story earlier:

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18627745

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24122182

[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29347665

Late at the party as a reader of /front, but as an Italian that moved abroad I wouldn't change my Moka pot for anything else.

- Small

- Can get consistently good coffee

It does need to change the rubber and a clean with vinegar every once in a while (6-12 months or so?)

I do like the Nespresso-like pods things -- very convenient but:

- Results in waste that is hard to recycle

- Takes up precious room on the counter-top

My variation is that i heat the chamber until the water boils, alone. Then turn off the heat, plop in the portafilter, screw on the top, and turn the heat on low and watch it until the coffee coming out turns from brown to clear-ish and starts "strombolating". Then put the bottom chamber under cold water to stop the process.

I highly recommend This Old Tony making his pot. Entertaining as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMrlyEreba8

It's great, but if you want to do it right with most pots you should use pre-heated water at almost 90°C, since prolonged heating makes the rubber gasket smell and it marks the coffee.

I won't ever give my moka up. A lot of value for the bucks I spent. Long life span, almost zero maintenance hassles and costs. And good coffee too.

P.S. I am southern Italian.

I got a chemex for xmas and I got to say it is awful.. can't make a decent cup with it for the life of me. Had no problems with a regular pour over into a pot.

What problems are you having? Technique shouldn't be too different than doing pour over, except for a coarser grind.

Maybe that's the problem, I like a richer finer grind...

Chemex needs a much coarser grind. I’d advise trying it - I have a half dozen methods of making coffee and the Chemex is consistently one of the best.

Yup. You need a sea salt-like grind for Chemex because of how thick the filter is.

I'd check out James Hoffmann's YouTube channel -- he's the Alton Brown of coffee, which is a reference I hope you get.

I was a Chemex user for years before I went to espresso. You can get GREAT coffee out of a pour-over rig, but there are tricks to it.

Thanks, I watched it. I like strong coffee.. I feel like the chemex overextracts and is bitter and overly clean. I am able to make a strong pot of coffee with a pour over no issues and a regular paper filter.

But I'll try his technique tomorrow. I probably have my water volume measure wrong.

If you want stronger coffee, use a lower water-to-coffee ratio. For example, the standard ratio is 16:1 water to coffee, i.e. ~300g water to 18.5g coffee. To make it stronger, add an extra gram. Grind size doesn't affect strength.

I love my moka pot and I take it with me everywhere I go.

I am by no means a coffee expert, but my 2 cents:

A slow boil seems to work wonders on cheap coffee

My favorite part is how the plastic handle sits an inch from the base yet completely melts over heat, simply brilliant.

My oldest pot is well over 10 years old and was in multiple open fires. It's magic plastic

Is hot aluminium safe for drinking water?

Yes. Aluminum when cast and exposed to air immediately covers with thin and hard layer of aluminum oxide, which is inert and doesn't dissolve into water. No danger.

Italian television brought coffee to the lab, and the results where not reassuring (from minute 18 onward, only Italian, I am sorry)

https://www.rai.it/programmi/report/inchieste/Un-espresso-a-...

aluminum was at around 1/6 of the EU recommended maximum safe concentration. But you could cut this in half using the stainless steel moka. Apparently about half of the aluminum came from the coffee powder itself and half from the moka.

A lot of metals from the coffee itself, apparently because of fertilizers and insecticides.

Anyway the moka itself released around 0.3 mg per liter of aluminum

Worth noting that the TV show is somewhat known for unreliable/biased reporting.

The amount of aluminum released by the moka is tiny, and as the EU guidelines say ( https://health.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2018-03/scheer_o_00... ) "cooking in aluminium containers or preserving food in aluminium-containing cans or pots often results in statistically significant, but not biologically important, increases in the aluminium content of some foods". [emphasis mine]

Considering the amounts we're talking about (of aluminum released, and of coffee from a moka pot), it's fundamentally a non-problem.

I was curious so I searched for extra context: from the same document, the mean diet-related intake quantities for aluminum in norway are 0.29 mg/kg bodyweight/week; this means that if you are 70 Kg, you would normally ingest about 20mg of aluminum a week.

Assuming you drink a whole liter of "aluminum moka coffe" a week, you get 0.81mg extra aluminum in your diet. A liter is about 16 "italian cups". You would get a heart attack before noticing symptomps of aluminum intoxications...

How about aluminium toxicity for humans? Was that ever concern about moka?

Looking forward to someone submitting the vacuum pot/siphon coffee maker. ;)

I just got a fancy Delonghi automatic and I miss my Moka still. Sigh.

I thought I was the only person in the world that still uses this...

I think every home in Spain has at least one Moka Coffee Pot.

I love these, but I recently made the mistake of buying a store brand one, I thought it looked the same, but actually, they don't have the spout quite right and it doesn't pour right, I have to pour my coffee over the sink because it dribbles everywhere.

I should have just repaired my old one, I left it too long on the stove and melted the O Ring, but it should be replaceable

>I recently made the mistake of buying a store brand one

Do you know that old saying, "you buy cheap, you buy twice"?

yeah, the O-rings are trivially replaceable, keep a pile to hand

You can very easily get replacement O-rings, I've had my moka pot for about 15 years and I'm on my third ring. The first got lost and the second damaged.

Yes you can generally buy the gaskets, but might need a specialty store to find them. They harden after a while anyway, and there's going to be someone in your life, a friend, housekeeper, in-law, who will throw it out in an effort to be helpful.

If the new one is thick enough alu you might think about filing the spout to make it work like the older one you have

Do yourself a favor and get a silicone replacement gasket instead of the Bialetti one.

(2018)

Years ago, I threw away my coffee maker, espresso maker, microwave, toaster oven and most other kitchen "appliances." I did keep a few electric grinders/mixers. But I also have some manual grinders.

I make coffee in a glass jar (gravity filter) or with a moka pot and concentrate on the ingredients now and brew coffee with cardamom and ceylon cinnamon.

The last thing I want in my kitchen are devices with blinking lights and clocks. My cast iron, carbon steel, stainless steel and glass gear have no moving parts. They are magically "compatible" with serial, parallel and USB cables. I'm the moving parts.

Change my mind: Moka pots are no different than Nespresso but exchange water waste for some fractions of a gram of aluminum.

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