Mr. Rogers' music was intricate (2020) [video] | Hacker News Reader

Mr. Rogers' music was intricate (2020) [video]

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149 pointsCaliforniaKarl80 comments

Fred Rogers was a music composition major at Rollins College[1] and his wife Sara Joanne Byrd majored in piano[2]. So it is no wonder that he cared about the music on his TV show.

[1] <https://scholarship.rollins.edu/tomokan/67> page 69.

[2] <https://scholarship.rollins.edu/tomokan/66>

Some of his early work as a producer was also for the NBC Opera Theater and Firestone Hour TV shows, which broadcast great performances of classical music and (you guessed it) opera.

There's actually a really nice clip of Mr Rogers playing piano himself in the video @ 5:29:

https://youtu.be/Z40SZ77CHK0?si=mo1WRUFcZyL4XH7h&t=329

Music theory power couple!

Such an interesting man. Quoted his mom in the company values recently: https://fleetdm.com/handbook/company#empathy

""" When I was a boy and I would see scary things in the news, my mother would say to me, "Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping." To this day, especially in times of "disaster", I remember my mother's words and I am always comforted by realizing that there are still so many helpers—so many caring people in this world. —Fred Rogers """

Mr. Rogers was a fully-qualified Presbyterian minister. He was a televangelist who didn't directly mention Jesus Christ as his savior.

One of the precepts of hymns and sung texts is that the music imparts the mood and emotion, rather than the speaker imposing his own interpretation on the text. Even if someone chants recto tono, the mode/key will elicit a less personal and more universal feeling to the words.

Mr. Rogers was still part of that transition from vaudeville and live musical theater. My childhood experience of his musicality was that it was sometimes so well-integrated that we hardly noticed he was singing, or accompanied, and sometimes it took center stage, such as when the trolley bell sounded and the piano imitated its travel along the tracks.

All that insight from this video, such as the improvisation and originality of each recording, the mature nature of the arrangements rather than a "childish" plinking of the keys, that's all a confirmation of my feelings about Mr. Rogers being an excellent father figure and an icon of what mass media can do right.

Mr Rogers always seemed to be communicating with kids and adults as a peer, never talking down to them "just as kids", and the music selected for his show seems quite similar.

The Atlantic spoke about how intentional Mr. Roger's communication was on his show which is an interesting read: (google cache) https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:lXyHza...

Original Link: https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/06/mr-rogers...

Internet Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20231227020506/https://www.theat...

I was born in 1968. I got an hour of TV each afternoon, I always did Sesame Street and Mr Roger's Neighborhood, I really liked his whole show and I assume I learned a lot from him.

Similarly this is why I feel kids were drawn to Steve from Blues Clues.

I'm always down for learning more about Fred Rogers and his show. Such an amazing individual. Doesn't look like he recorded much (outside the show), but definitely will be looking into what he has recorded.

> Doesn't look like he recorded much (outside the show), but definitely will be looking into what he has recorded.

For anyone who hasn't seen it, one must-see video outside the show is Fred Rogers testifying before the Senate in 1969, in order to defend funding for public television. He is able to win over an incredibly rude and hostile senator in just a few minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKy7ljRr0AA

Why exaggerate and insult like that? The Senator was not rude or hostile.

I can only speculate, but I have seen this linked on social media dozens of times, often including that detail of "shutting down an extremely hostile senator" in the caption. So whether or not one interprets the senator as rude or hostile, people are getting exposed to that idea pretty regularly.

That isn't a justification. "I heard someone else say it" doesn't remove one's own personal accountability for saying it as well.

I imagine this is a sentiment that Mr. Rogers would agree with.

I'd have to agree, my only point was that people may think they remember having watched it a certain way simply because they read the viral headlines so many times

Not in this interaction, no.

In general, yes. The statement is to his general method of interacting with experts.

His body language and tone in the initial interaction seemed flippant for sure. Is there a longer clip?

Over the years, I've never seen a longer version. I thought CSPAN might have one, but searching for just "fred rogers" wasn't giving me any results pre-1980s. The PBS versions I've found are just the OP clip as well.

In my searches, I have seen one YouTube video that has a few seconds extra at the front[0], but I couldn't tell you if it's actually Senator Pastore screaming "shut up" or if the author sampled some random gavels and screaming, ha.

I'd love to see the full hearing just to get the context of how big of a shift Pastore really went through, but if CSPAN and PBS both don't have it, I feel it doesn't exist at this point.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C5PMPIdG_Y

Anyone near the Library of Congress, the transcript of that day's testimony is part of a 733 foot 'volume'? It should be near the front as that subcommittee only started in 1969, so it should be near the beginning. https://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/0...

https://open.spotify.com/album/5rorTQbNjzQGwlfmv1ecsK

You are Special

Really great energy. Nothing quite like it.

“Won’t You Be My Neighbor?” kicks off with Fred at the piano and is a good documentary throughout.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7681902/?ref_=nm_knf_t_2

(That’s IMDB’s ‘ref_’)

I shortened the title from "Mr. Rogers' Music Was Way More Intricate Than You Remember"

I like the "Mr. Rogers' Music Was Intricate" title way better. Thank you.

The same guy also breaks down the Thomas The Tank Engine theme song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og1Pbn8OufI&t=486s

Between Mister Rogers' Neighborhood and Sesame Street, there was a ton of really good music -- good on its own terms -- for kids growing up in that era.

Same guy did a video about the Sesame Street Pinball Number Count song (one-two-thee-four-five...six-seven-eight-nine-ten...eleven-twelve)

The song is teaching children to count, but the rhythm is very advanced (7/4 time!) so trying to count the beats like a musician is just bananas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMtGImlEmu0

As a musician (and incidentally a fan of this YT channel) the only non bananas way to count that is “like a musician”.

There must be something in the water this week for kids who grew up in that era -- posted earlier about Mister Rogers' Neighborhood and Sesame Street documentaries

"Street Gang: How We Got to Sesame Street" & "Won't You Be My Neighbor?" & a few of my own take-aways on both https://meanbusiness.com/2024/01/22/sesame-street-the-neighb...

All (or at least nearly 2000) of Mr. Rogers episodes are available on Archive.org. It's really great to be able to share these with our child, and us parents often appreciate the break and quietness more than our kid does!

When my son was young and had to go get his first hair cut I thought of trying to find a Mr. Rogers episode to see if he talks about it. I found a very old episode, so old it was in black and white, and I was surprised to find he sat through the whole thing. Hair cuts can be a big deal for young children, but after watching that episode we've never had an issue with hair cuts. It still works!

There is power in the old magicks...

That's incredible, thanks for the reference!

Episode 1 looks so great. So so timeless..!

https://archive.org/details/tt0062588_202201/0001.mp4

Thanks so much for the direct link. I'm hoping my grandkids will enjoy Mr Rogers as much as my kids did; he was a wonderful fixture in their lives.

I really like his breakdowns of pop culture music. His videos on The Peanuts and Cowboy Bebop are such fun dives into unexpected intricacies

I'm now reminiscing about some conversation I had in a music store circa 1988 or 1989, in which the other guy referred to "that brutal jazz" in Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood.

Custom GPT trained on some of Fred Rogers work

https://chat.openai.com/g/g-oW7MpoDDn-mister-rogers-gpt

Between the music on Mr. Rogers and the Vince Guaraldi music on the Peanuts special, a generation of Jazz lovers were launched.

Were that it were so. In the last 20 years, just about every jazz club everywhere has shut its doors. There’s only one good one that I know of now, that plays live jazz every single night (like a jazz club ought): the 1905 in Portland, OR.

If you care about the arts, get the fuck out of your house and go support the arts. Jazz clubs are hanging by a hair. Maybe a city doesn’t need more than one or two, but most cities have none.

I always loved the music on the show. It’s probably why I still turn on Bill Evans and similar to this day when I want to relax.

This is all mindblowing --based on what Jonathan Davis was saying, Mr. Rogers wasn't what this is depicting.

I've always wondered how intentional Fred Rogers was when writing these songs. I've been in a shitty ska punk band for years and the hyperactive singer will be like, "Guys! I've got this great new song and it goes like this." He'll sing a melody for a verse or whatever and we'll piece together a chord progression then he'll sing the chorus and we'll piece chords together that sort of fit it but it will be in some bananas different key. The band is all looking at each other like WTF is this nonsense? but the crazy thing is the song winds up working and it is crazy complex even though none of us have any idea what we're doing.

How about covering "Everybody's Fancy"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My84I3ZjHv0 But come up with other chords?

I mean, music theory is all about communication and describing how things sound, not fitting everything in a box. Though once you learn the theory behind why your stuff works despite the clashing keys, you'll be able to describe it to other musicians and more easily apply it intentionally.

Adam Neely’s video essay on the music of The Backyardigans is pretty great as well.

Squad Goals

Rafa e Luiz

I like Johnny Costa but always found Mr. Rogers himself creepy and never more so than when he was singing.

It might be the very-long takes without cuts (it’s nuts, he does the jacket-to-cardigan and oxfords-to-loafers getting-home routine and launches straight into his first segment all as one shot in at least most episodes, the craft and skill on display is really impressive) plus lots of looking straight at the camera, which are intended to avoid confusion (people aren’t born understanding the “language” of film editing) and make kids feel like he’s addressing them personally. Some folks find that kind of direct attention uncomfortable, and the avoidance of film/tv editing artifice might make it feel even more so.

You found Mr. Rogers creepy?

... I guess that proves you can't please everyone.

Mr. Rogers is literally seen as the incarnation of wholesomeness, part of the holy secular trinity of positive male role models with Levar Burton and Bob Ross.

You might consider not casting aspersions based on absolutely nothing. If there were any allegations of creepiness they'd have come out by now, so like... Keep his name out yo mouth.

Sorry, man, just my personal reaction. I'm with you on Levar Burton and Bob Ross though.

Have you ever considered learning about Mr. Rogers and what made him the way that he was? There's extensive documentation about how his childhood experiences basically shaped him into the person that he became. I'd wager it would perhaps alter your viewpoint a bit if you were to understand the "why" behind Fred.

I loved Fred Rogers as a kid, and I am still in awe of everything he did.

I can also understand how someone could find the direct, intense way he communicated with the camera uncomfortably intimate and offputting (even though it was an important part of his success). That's OK.

Yeah, I've seen a few things and listened to the Fresh Air interview way back when.

There could be worse.. Jimmy Savile here in the UK. /shudders

Jim'll "fix" it!

What kind of response did you think you were going to get?

I didn't have any expectation at all, just contributing my opinion. I value all the feedback I'm getting and totally willing to agree that he was a fine person and I'm an outlier. Doesn't change my gut reaction, though.

The comment probably says more about you than Fred Rogers, but why post something irrelevant to the article?

There's a difference between having a negative personal reaction, and sharing it publically. It's causing a public harm based on nothing other than some vague internal feeling. It's unproductive and irresponsible.

Sorry, are you really saying it's bad to communicate your feelings? On a thread about Mr Rogers?

I'm _deeply_ uncomfortable with eye contact, and find Mr Rogers to be deeply disturbing to watch. And being able to _talk_ about that without it being implied that it means either of us are bad people is an important lesson.

Nobody is telling you not to discuss your feelings, but there's a difference between taking adult responsibility by saying something like:

  "I was not emotionally equipped to watch Mr. Rogers; I had a very hard time dealing with the feelings that arose when I watched that show".

And shifting the responsibility to him, by implying that he was a creep of a person.

What about publicly sharing positive personal reaction, is that okay? If you answer yes to that and no to the other then you've got a problem on your hands.

We'd have a problem on our hands if we all followed the admonishment to show more respect to people in public? To not besmirch someone, with no reason other than our own personal bias and prejudice?

You're worried about the world being too kind and positive? You shouldn't. There are enough people actually doing things worthy of scorn -- enough to wear out your keyboard -- without besmirching someone for the flimsiest of reasons.

I believe when talking about a fictional character different rules apply than when talking about a real person. Otherwise criticism of creative output would be considered rude.

Theo problem is when you say bad things about someone that isn’t true it’s called slander and if it’s true then it’s backbiting. It’s not good in general to malign people or put a negative look on them without a good reason.

The original comment said nothing about Fred Rogers. It was "I ... always found Mr. Rogers himself creepy"

Furthermore it induced a few interesting replies about his style of looking directly into the camera and long-takes, and parasocial relationships (to be fair, it also induced a single reply with someone implying that while Mr. Rogers probably isn't a pedophile, "better safe than sorry").

As an aside, I'm somewhat surprised nobody's mentioned the puppets yet; lots of people find puppets creepy.

> The original comment said nothing about Fred Rogers. It was "I ... always found Mr. Rogers himself creepy"

That’s pretty passive aggressive. Wouldn’t you be offended if someone said that about you? “I never said you were stupid, I just /think/ of you as stupid.”

Firstly, I can say that I definitely would not be offended, since people have said that about me, and I wasn't offended.

Secondly, we are talking about a performer while performing[1] Sharing personal reactions (both positive and negative) to public performances is, IMO, well within the bounds of polite discourse.

1: This is harder to distinguish when the actor's name is "Fred Rogers" and the role is "Mr. Rogers," but the original comment referred to "Mr. Rogers" rather than Fred Rogers and used the phrase "especially while singing," so I think it's a safe assumption here.

To me, any adult that was that friendly towards kids probably had a panel van. It definitely comes across with that vibe to me. It's a very fine line, and better safe than sorry. I can get the ick vibe and make decisions on that without making any possibly incorrect disparaging remarks about someone. It's just the internal alarms do go off when grown men are attracted to children that are not their own. Yes, I'm painting with a very broad brush, but again safe than sorry.

>... any adult that was that friendly towards kids...

Treating children as people with basic love and respect is all that he asked for, and all that he demonstrated.

You say "adult" and then later "grown men." Which is the actual problem?

Also, in what way did Fred Rogers demonstrate "attraction" to children?

Your position sounds like the result of too much media consumption and giving the media, the press, and activists far more credence than they really deserve.

Are there bad guys in the world? Yes. But not nearly so many nor as brazen as everyone wanting to yell their story in your ear would have you believe.

Avoiding human friendship is a large cause of the division and unsafety in our modern world.

I mean, I also found him creepy, so I don't think zwieback is that unusual.

Like who is this guy who always wanted to have a neighbor just like me. and always wanted to live in a neighborhood with me. And with all the eye contact, it doesn't feel like a hypothetical you, it feels like me. Stranger danger signs.

I mean, watch this episode[1], and tell me that opening monologue doesn't feel creepy?

When I was young, this show felt a lot different than some of other shows in terms of speaking to the audience directly so much. Plus, it didn't have a cool pinball animation, I'd rather watch Sesame Street and learn my numbers, thanks ;)

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yujaPRM1PQo

It's not for everyone. Mr Rogers was for children who needed attention from a caring adult but didn't have it. He was the original parasocial relationship, but he was relentlessly focused on making it a healthy and rewarding experience for children who had the television as a babysitter.

for children who had the television as a babysitter

and that's the difference, as I think he explains in his statement to the Senate Subcommitte on Communications in 1969

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKy7ljRr0AA

Statistically, strangers were never the danger they were presented as. Most terrible things which happen to children happen at the hands of friends or family.

Mister Rogers exhibits the most radical interpersonal philosophy I've ever witnessed: he mastered taking everyone for who they are.

It's the most profound kindness I've ever seen practiced as a way of being.

So, yeah, it's a little uncomfortable.

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