Riot Games laying off 11%
riotgames.com
riotgames.com
But, as usual,
> As CEO, I’m accountable for the changes we’re making and where we’re headed in the future. So, I think it’s important for me to share how we got here and how the next few days will work.
I see no indication as to how Dylan will actually be held accountable for the decisions that ultimately led to this.
Who's upset with this CEO's actions besides the families affected by it, who have no power individually over anything to hold him accountable? They're his capital resources. Executives aren't accountable to that.
Which bad bets?
“Since 2019, we’ve made a number of big bets across the company … Some of the significant investments we’ve made aren’t paying off the way we expected them to.
https://www.riotgames.com/en/news/announcing-dylan-jadeja-ri...
Right. And since we know this, isn't it basic common sense to ask yourself "what would I do if I lost my job tomorrow?" and have some savings and a plan? Especially if you're a relatively well-paid tech employee? It doesn't matter if you consider your job precarious or not, it's simply irresponsible to not be prepared for the possibility.
Most societies recognize that the employer to employee relationship is unbalanced in favor of the employer in a way that consumer to grocery store isn’t.
Unemployment insurance, and severance requirements wouldn’t be necessary if the relationship were really the equally balanced market transaction you think that it is.
Even the executives who do the laying off recognize the harm they are causing. I’ve been on calls with CEOs who were crying because they recognized (or wanted to appear that they recognized) the harm they were causing even if they thought it was justified.
Victim is a perfectly reasonable word to describe the people on the receiving end of that harm.
https://www.newsweek.com/americans-have-burned-through-their...
These are grown professional adults we're talking about, not helpless wards of the state. It's not unreasonable to expect people to be able to take care of themselves.
The tendency to cry victimhood at every obstacle is pernicious and debilitating to those who practice it. I would encourage people to avoid it.
So you have one set of people suffering, and others connected to the suffering being unaffected. Whether that connection is causation is up to interpretation. Either way the ethical calculus certainly feels imbalanced. You can use all the logic you want, but it’s hard to address the feeling of something amiss. It might not be arson, but it still feels like a controlled burn that went out of control.
A layoff can prompt suffering or it can just be a blip between jobs depending on how you prepared someone is for it. A person who chooses to exercise agency is more likely to take steps to prepare because they don't feel they're helplessly at mercy of forces they can't control. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Death is a known part of the deal of living, and car accidents are known risks of driving a car. That doesn’t mean someone who dies in a car accident isn’t a victim.
For many people there isn’t a realistic option other than employment.
That doesn’t make it illegal, or even a bad business move, but it very much has victims. They’re the ones being sacrificed for the good of the company.
People need to stop acting like layoffs are the worst, evilest thing that can happen. It's important that people are treated with dignity and a financial cushion, and at least according to this blog post that seems to be the case.
But when it comes to cases where economic and business conditions have drastically changed, I don't think it's reasonable that we expect business leaders to have crystal balls for years in the future.
If you reread my comment, that’s not there and I acknowledged that it’s sometimes necessary (many of the current layoffs are not but I also remember 2000 when a lot of places which had been unable to fill customer demand were abruptly without business). My point was simply rejecting the idea that people are somehow not harmed by this - it’s usually legal, something people should expect, etc. but it still has a big impact. I respect business leaders who are cognizant of that and treat people with dignity - for example, Riot doesn’t appear to be claiming this is performance based like a certain company recently in the news.
It wouldn't surprise me if part of this is because of how much harder it (anecdotally) seems to be for game developers/designers to find new jobs relative to their non-gaming peers. I'm having a hard time finding data to distinguish the two (game devs v. devs, game designers v. e.g UX designers), but going at least from my own network, those in gaming were more profoundly affected.
If that's true on any broader scale, then putting people out with two months pay in an industry that could take four to eight months to find new work could be a bad look for the RIFing company.
But i'm pointing out that if all the agents in a market acted against the interest of the relationship between the bussiness and the customers, we would have much bigger issues than just layoffs. Everything would be unnecessarily expensive all the time, insufficient volumes and supply. Development would be slower. The companies trying to minimize costs and maximize trade between them and the customers is not just caused by greed, or resulting in suffering, these are the basic drives behind the survival of modern life as we know it.
You know going into this the next generation can come along and change the rules. Maybe the past should have thought about that before having kids shrug
Physics doesn’t put an obligation on us to serve the elders catechisms and chants. It does empower us to overwhelm through strength and raw numbers.
Throwing up their hands is not a good political position of the generations who need to trust the next generations won’t just drug them up and stick them in poorly run state care.
Unemployment is also the largest contributer to male suicide in the entire world.
So while they are not victims of a crime or mistreatment, they are certainly victims of circumstance.
People are right to want to see real, impactful consequences for leaders who "take full responsibility" because if they in fact are taking it, they're taking responsibility the bad choices and mismanagement that lead to the layoffs and the consequences of said layoffs.
People are tired of leadership huffing their own farts, posting a teary eyed message, and continuing their lives like nothing ever happened.
If I fucked up and had an adverse effect on hundreds, possibly thousands of lives tomorrow I'd be fired on the spot, rightfully so too.
> Unemployment is also the largest contributer to male suicide in the entire world.
Imagine how many people have already tried, or succeeded as a direct result of layoffs in the last year as a direct consequence of mass layoffs. It's sickening to think about.
This is from the OED. There’s no mention of consequences. You are expected to account for your actions. Like an accountant is expected to keep an accounting of transactions.
I’m an on-call engineer, I’m accountable for outages. That means that I give a root-cause analysis when they happen. I’m not given disciplinary action when outages happen, because there are many factors that cause an outage and that’s too much for one person to bear.
> what's the point of saying it?
This is basic corporate comms. If you’re silent, people may assume something worse than the truth. So you give some explanation (some kind of account is given by the person held accountable).
If an accountant lies in his numbers, they go to prison.
Why are you missing the most obvious explanation, it’s simply a political point they have to be seen saying, but have no intention of doing
- I.e. it’s a lie
I don’t think we get a lot of mileage when we argue about the right words used in corporate comms. Like, “this person is accountable to some extent, but not enough for my standards, so the word ‘accountable’ should not be used here.”
saying accountable isn't wrong per se but it's definitely not the connotations anyone would say on the spot when on-call or responsible-for are vastly more accurate.
in particular, on-call brings with it all the baggage that being on-call requires. responsible-for implies you have a responsibility, it does not imply a negative consequence if you fail to meet that responsibility (it doesn't preclude it, but it doesn't imply it either).
accountable implies being held accountable which implies a negative consequence.
saying you're held accountable for a system very strongly implies there will be a negative consequence for failure whereas responsible-for does not.
it's what's technically allowed vs what people actually say.
Now if they are responsible, maybe they should be liable for consequences
That's not a common interpretation in this context, especially the part about responsibility v. accountability. If it helps to understand it in a business process context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_assignment_matr...
Often, the entity accountable for an outcome owns the consequences regardless of who's responsible for implementing it. It doesn't help that accountability and responsibility are often synonyms in all other contexts. It's why the department executive gets fired if 30 million dollars was spent and the program doesn't get the job done, at least if they manage not to skirt accountability for it.
I believe you're reading the sentence differently than how it's being conveyed.
Dylan is talking about the decision to layoff will improve the company for the future. If it does not then the board should "hold him accountable" and remove him.
You're hoping that Dylan gets punished for being forced to layoff employees.
So…
> You're hoping that Dylan gets punished for being forced to layoff employees.
Seems to intentionally misconstrue what OP said.
That he wants "accountability for why there are layoffs".
Well that actually does make it seem like it was something they wanted to avoid.
I might need to eat my hat https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38957024
Someone explained that in one of the other recent layoff threads.
imagine if a retained CEO's layoff statement resulted in actual rioters
To the commenters saying this is just about juicing profits: ok, maybe so, but it seems at least equally plausible that it is what he says it is. Once you've reached the point that you've realized you've made a mistake, it makes sense to act.
you're overselling that unnecessarily.
But the point about the abuse is true and it wasn't just sexual abuse, it was harassment at all levels.
for anyone not aware:
https://kotaku.com/top-riot-executive-suspended-without-pay-...
> Earlier this week, Riot’s CEO sent an e-mail to employees describing the punishment its COO, Scott Gelb, will face after multiple employees alleged that, as a comedy bit, he has repeatedly touched subordinates’ balls or butt or farted in their faces. Several employees tell Kotaku that his punishment—two months of unpaid leave and training—is far from satisfactory.
you can't make this shit up, and in fact it's so ridiculous we don't need to mislabel the player walkout, the truth is bad enough by itself.
This may well sometimes be true, but I doubt it passes over to "often".
Work with us - Open Positions: 0
In Britain the investment by companies into workforce training has fallen off a cliff. Then the same companies complain about shortage of skills. Apparently people should finish university with 10 years of work experience, at their own expense.
I know how to run machine tools. But turn out precise parts, that eludes me.
People specialize into different skills.
Bummer considering it was one of the best F2P online TCGs out there (and that was probably also the problem, it's such great value for the F2P playerbase and didn't go as hard on monetization other than cosmetics).
LoR State of the Game Update for those that care:
https://playruneterra.com/en-us/news/game-updates/state-of-t...
TIL: people of recent generations use work e-mails for personal usage.
I have only seen this phenomena with older generations when they worked for a single company their entire life until or up to retirement.
Is your employer provided HSA account work or personal?
I already know these companies archive and search this shit. Last thing I need is my personal emails ending up in some email dump (ie, epic vs Apple)
Buy a personal domain for personal stuff and don't run a business off it.
https://www.stambaughness.com/blog/amortize-research-and-dev...
Lovely new little wrench in everyone's plans.
Plus many companies hired going into Covid, thinking online was the "new normal". They're returning to a healthier headcount now.
Plus they probably let go those underperforming certain metrics or backing unproductive initiatives. Though that should have no bearing on hiring, it will.
Plus it's no longer ZIRP.
That's a lot of hiring headwind.
They've created a nice world and lore in League of Legends, so I am having high hopes.
I wonder if any devs will be fired from that team. Probably not?
Game startups or tech startup in general? I can understand tech startups still feeling the effects of limited venture capital, I'm less familiar with gaming startups and their funding dynamics.
Also, can you share more details about the games industry? There's no much that has made it to the front page of HN regarding how hard the games industry in particular was hit by layoffs, so I don't have a sense of numbers.
Sounds like that some project might be cancelled.
EDIT: As several people have noted, while Riot Games is private, their majority owne (Tencent) is not. According to Tencent's most recent filings, video game revenue is up by double-digits and they reported profits in the past.
Unless Riot is claiming that they increased expenses by double-digit % in Q4, they are profitable.
I wonder if being an adult has always felt like, financially, being placed in the "rack" torture device. These days it feels like I'm being stretched from all directions.
Nicola Tesla was a successful capitalist? Isaac Neuton? Leu Paster? What about the guy that invented penicillin?
Without capitalists, progress reaches the masses a bit slower. Without scientists, capitalists would still trade sheep, live in huts, and wipe their ass with tree bark.
I am amazed by the shameless disregard for empirical facts and data and hard historical evidence.
I’m not shameless the anti-capitalists are.
Here is a book you might be interested in:
“Envy: A Theory of Social Behavior” by Schoeck
That can help explain this very common destructive human instinct towards collectivism in general.
and here is an examination of the most failed idea in human history - socialism:
https://iea.org.uk/publications/socialism-the-failed-idea-th...
It’s outrageous and shameless to vilify entrepreneurs legitimate and ethical pursuit of profits.
There’s the sticking point. Way too many unethical capitalists, and without strong enforcement mechanisms those bad actors simply concentrate market power and actually break the capitalist system you’re so ready to cream your jeans over.
Edit: also after having looked up that book, not sure if some Freudian level psychobabble making sweeping claims about human emotion and motivation is really that great of an argument for unrestrained capitalism.
The book delves a lot deeper than Freudian concepts, offering a sociological perspective on how envy drives societal dynamics. He argues that in modern societies, envy often triggers destructive emotions, leading to flawed support for collectivist and socialist ideas based on instinct rather than logical outcomes, understanding how emotional responses like envy generate repetitively failed economic and social policies. Socialism is literally the single most failed idea in history, no other idea has been tried so many times and failed so miserably so many times, the question is why? one definition of insanity in individuals is repeating the same approach and expecting different outcomes! why are we sociologically insane? understanding the evolutionary origins of envy is highly relevant, an emotion that in smaller groups can improve overall performance of the group, motivating aspirations, but in larger groups reverts to destructive actions.
What is this socialism you are railing against, where can I find it? Russia is not socialist any more, neither is China, so where is it?
I think you have a religion, and it is that capitalism must never be criticised. Its excesses must never be reigned in. For the past 20 years we have tried your ‘capitalism without breaks’ experiment and it has delivered fastest falling living standards and environmental destruction in recorded history of peacetime
> Socialism is literally the single most failed idea in history
Have you heard of this little 500 year long period called the DarkAges? We had plenty of capitalism, mercantilism, classism, religious fundamentalism, but no science, and half the population of Europe died in agony because they didn’t know about soap.
Or about the trans Atlantic slave trade, an entirely capitalist institution that killed more people than Mao and Stalin combined.
In fact how could you even make such a statement, what societal order existed for the previous 10,000 years of human history before socialism was invented?
If socialism is such a failure, how come USSR was even ever a threat to the USA? Do you feel threatened by other societal orders, say a monarchy? No you don’t, they are not competitive
The claim that the Dark Ages represent an era of capitalism is a fundamental misunderstanding of both history and the essence of libertarian capitalism. The Dark Ages, characterized by feudalism, lacked the core tenets of modern capitalism – namely, individual property rights and the principle of non-aggression. True libertarian capitalism, as we understand it today, emerged around the 1800s, bringing with it unprecedented economic growth and scientific progress. This system is founded on respect for individual rights, voluntary exchange, and freedom from coercion – principles nonexistent in the feudal societies of the Dark Ages. In stark contrast, collectivism and socialism, despite their relatively recent emergence, have consistently failed wherever tried, lacking the efficiency and innovation-driven growth inherent in capitalist systems. It’s crucial to distinguish between these vastly different epochs and ideologies. Modern libertarian capitalism is not only the most successful system in human history for advancing prosperity and human well-being, but also a cornerstone for scientific and technological advancement.
The supposed success of the USSR, which was indeed a threat to the US, was built on a foundation of resource exploitation, extreme violence, and suppression of individual freedoms. This model proved to be unsustainable, ultimately leading to the USSR’s collapse. The real threat was not its competitive prowess but its potential for global destabilization through military force and ideological expansion. As for the modern resurgence of collectivist ideas, now often cloaked in terms like ‘progressive,’ ‘social democratic,’ and ‘social justice,’ these are merely rebranded versions of the same failed ideologies. They promise equity and fairness but historically deliver devastation and disaster. This isn’t just a theoretical debate; it’s a matter of learning from history to avoid repeating catastrophic mistakes. The resurgence of these collectivist ideas poses a real threat to the future of humanity, as they undermine the principles of individual liberty, economic freedom, and innovation that have driven human progress. It’s crucial to recognize and resist these regressive ideologies for the sake of preserving and advancing a prosperous and free society.
Lastly, the assertion that the last 20 years of capitalism have led to the fastest falling living standards is factually incorrect. On the contrary, global living standards have significantly improved over this period. The World Bank and other international organizations consistently report reductions in extreme poverty and improvements in health, education, and overall quality of life worldwide, largely due to the spread of market-based economies. Furthermore, the greatest environmental challenges are often seen in authoritarian and totalitarian regimes, where there is less transparency, weaker environmental regulations, and less accountability. In contrast, many capitalist countries have been at the forefront of adopting sustainable practices and investing in green technologies. It’s essential to base our arguments on accurate data and acknowledge the complex interplay between economic systems and environmental outcomes.
> transatlantic slave trade and its erroneous association with capitalism is not only historically inaccurate but intellectually dishonest.
You have fully adopted ‘no true socialism’ argument, no matter what criticism of capitalist I bring up, whether it’s current USA or historic wrongdoing, it’s always not the right kind of capitalism. If they would be doing capitalism right, all those deaths would have never happened.
What is unhinged is the idea that unrestricted capitalism protects your rights.
When capital rules, it trumps individual rights and liberty.
Unregulated capitalism gives you children dying in coal mines, it gives you trade in organs, it gives you liquidation of penguins while they are still alive, and slavery.
The entire argument of ‘Capitalism= freedom’ is totally dishonest.
The statement ‘when capital rules it trumps individual rights and liberties’ is a mischaracterization. In capitalist systems, capital doesn’t ‘rule’ – it’s merely a tool in a framework where individual rights and liberties are paramount. The free market depends on a rule of law where the state ensures a level playing field, not by controlling the economy but by safeguarding these rights and freedoms.
Your focus on slavery, while an important historical issue, is a misapplication in this context. Slavery, as practiced in colonial times, was the antithesis of libertarian capitalist principles. It was based on coercion and violence, the very things libertarian capitalism opposes. Similarly, child labor in its exploitative historical context was a result of a lack of regulation protecting individual rights, not a feature of capitalism. Capitalism didn’t invent child labor, but it did help end it. While socialist regimes like the Soviet Union exploited child labor extensively under the guise of equality, it was the economic growth fueled by capitalism that empowered societies to enact labor reforms. The wealth created by free markets enabled the development of laws that protect workers, proving that capitalism is a solution, not the problem.
Conflating the failures and injustices of feudalism, colonialism, and other oppressive systems with libertarian capitalism is a distortion. It’s essential to understand and debate these concepts based on their actual principles and historical implementations, not on mischaracterizations or conflated definitions.
Claiming that unregulated capitalism leads to child labor, organ trade, and slavery is a gross misrepresentation. Let’s look at the facts:
- Child labor is still a grave issue in countries like the Democratic Republic of Congo, often linked to cobalt mining, where the government does not enforce labor laws effectively, and the economy is far from a libertarian capitalist model.
- Organ trade thrives in regions with weak legal systems and rampant poverty, like certain parts of Asia and the Middle East, not in countries with strong property rights and free markets.
- Modern slavery and human trafficking are most prevalent in nations where the rule of law is weak, and economic freedom is limited, such as North Korea and Eritrea, not in libertarian capitalist societies.
These examples clearly show that such human rights abuses are more common in environments lacking the core principles of libertarian capitalism: strong property rights, rule of law, and individual liberty.
There are millions of people whose work made the West a great civilisation that it is today, who did not pursuit profit, many of them through self-sacrifice.
This propensity to claim credit for their work is morally corrupt. That’s outrageous and shameless.
It’s the same ideology that allowed boss of United Carbide to shelter in US from justice after killing 10,000 people Bhopal
Fleming’s invention of penicillin wasn’t about capitalism or socialism, but how capitalism effectively used his discovery to save millions of lives globally. It’s not about claiming credit, but recognizing the system that best harnesses such innovations for widespread benefit. Regarding corporate responsibility, capitalism doesn’t excuse unethical behavior, as seen in public and legal backlash against such incidents. True capitalism demands accountability, not sheltering the guilty.
Consider the printing press, invented not just for knowledge’s sake, but also driven by Gutenberg’s vision for profit. This invention revolutionized the spread of knowledge, paving the way for scientific progress and the Enlightenment. Just like with penicillin, it’s a prime example of how the pursuit of profit under capitalism can fuel advancements that benefit all of humanity.
The real moral outrage would be ignoring how capitalism has lifted billions out of poverty. It’s not self-congratulatory to acknowledge facts. Capitalism, unlike any other system, has consistently turned innovations into tangible benefits for the masses. Using emotive language like ‘shameless’ or ‘morally corrupt’ doesn’t change these historical truths. It’s about progress and real-world results, not ideological rhetoric.