Comment by NoZebra120vClip | Hacker News Reader

Comment by NoZebra120vClip | Hacker News Reader

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NoZebra120vClip

I have an Android phone, and a few months ago I left it behind in a Waymo autonomous vehicle.

Awhile ago, I added the "Find My Device" site to my bookmarks and I'd tested it out a few times. So I started there. And I also used Google Voice to place a voice call, so when it didn't ring in my home, I knew it wasn't here.

The Waymo passenger answered and there was much giggling. She kept saying she didn't know what to do. I said just leave it in the car.

So, knowing it was out of my control, I sent the remote wipe command, and hoped for the best. It turned out, the passenger also used the "Emergency Call" to send a text to my emergency contact. She offered to leave the phone in a pharmacy across town! I don't know how that would've helped.

Anyway, I did recover the phone at the Waymo Depot. It had obeyed the remote-wipe command and it was factory reset, with a full battery. It actually came out better-than-new, as the subsequent updates applied a few nice features.

> She offered to leave the phone in a pharmacy across town! I don't know how that would've helped.

Well for one, the pharmacy isn't moving.

I would say that moving the phone from the place I left it would promote it from "lost" to "stolen".

Can you now envision a conversation between this passenger and the pharmacy clerk:

"I found this phone in some car"

"What do you want me to do about it?"

"Hold on to it until some guy I don't know comes to claim it?"

"We don't want this personal property! Go away!"

[Waymo car is gone now]

[Passenger absconds with phone or throws it away]

[Owner is no longer able to track or retrieve phone]

You're overthinking it; it'd just be "I found this phone". They don't need to give the backstory. Most businesses will hold onto valuable lost property for a while, on the assumption that a customer dropped something.

> I would say that moving the phone from the place I left it would promote it from "lost" to "stolen".

A really key element here is that they offered to help you out by leaving it there for you, so I don't see how "stolen" would come in to it...

Moving the phone from the place it was left with consent of the owner is not theft.

And it's not that crazy to leave lost property with a nearby business (presumably a trusted one)- sure they could say no but then you could just find another way to return the device.

Also why would you not be able to track it any more if they left it at the pharmacy, it's not like the Find My Device feature only works in Waymos. I guess you just mean due to the sequencing of wiping before noticing the text message?

> Moving the phone from the place it was left with consent of the owner is not theft.

Tell me more about how I somehow gave consent to that. Also, tell me more about how a stranger holding a random found device authenticates a caller as the owner of said device.

Unnecessarily rude and combative reply. The GP is clearly talking about the hypothetical scenario where you consent to her leaving it at a pharmacy - which certainly makes a lot more sense than just leaving it in a car. You said she offered to leave it at a pharmacy. Then didn't. So it doesn't seem likely she was going to do anything without thinking she was allowed to.

> which certainly makes a lot more sense than just leaving it in a car.

Why? I am a Waymo customer. I left it in the car, and so the service has a policy to collect the item and return it to their customer. Some random store where I don't go, all bets are off.

I was able to contact Waymo and discuss the lost item and they were able to recover it because it was left in the car. That is a success. I was also able to retrieve the item from their Depot because their Lost & Found process works. That is a 100% success.

It was unclear in my original comment, but the passenger's offer to leave it at a pharmacy was in a text message to my emergency contact, who didn't reply. I heard about that bit after-the-fact. All I told the passenger, repeatedly, was, "please leave it where you found it in the car" because Waymo would be able to work that out with me, a customer.

A few months ago, I lost the front door key to my apartment. The leasing office was closing in 5 minutes. I needed a loaner key, and I had no ID. I offered to leave my phone (one in the same) as collateral. They were extremely reluctant to be holding on to that instead of an ID. They said they'd make a one-time exception.

Phones are not really things that strangers like to hold on to, in case you've not noticed. If you are admitted to a hospital or jail or something, they get really jumpy about putting your electronics in a locker. Partly having to do with the likelihood of fire or explosion, the volume and value of personal data on those things, and their trackability. The best course of action for a lost device is you leave it where you found it, because that's the owner's best hope of retracing their path and finding it again.

I'm glad it worked out in this occasion - it's definitely a success and a credit to both Waymo's processes and also the n people who were in the car after you and didn't steal it. But it just as easily could have disappeared after this woman offered to put it in a more secure location (in the hands of an employee at a business is more secure than a car that can be accessed by essentially anyone at any time).

> The Waymo passenger answered and there was much giggling. She kept saying she didn't know what to do. I said just leave it in the car.

I inferred that you discussed this with the person, since you indicated you talked to them via voice. That would have been the perfect time to arrange for return of the device.

I guess after reading between the lines, this person didn't suggest this action during the voice call, only via the text you discovered afterwards?

Elsewhere you mention that leaving the phone in the car was the best course of action, but the next person in that waymo could easily have swiped it.

I suppose a middle ground could have been to tell them to put it in the back seat pocket or something so that it was a bit more hidden while you contacted waymo support to let them know to retrieve it.

> Also, tell me more about how a stranger holding a random found device authenticates a caller as the owner of said device.

This is a little much. That's quite a threat model you are operating under. It explains why you immediately wiped. I think most people are not concerned with that contingency.

Honestly I can't envision that conversation happening between two real people. What is much, much more likely to actually happen in my experience:

"I found this phone."

"Ok." takes it

You go in later "I lost my phone, do you have it here?" and they hand it to you. For particularly fastidious store clerks they may ask you to describe it before handing it over. And you likely have to wait while whoever you ask asks all the other employees if they found a phone.

It's not clear to me that letting the phone just sort of drift through the ether toward the Waymo Depot while who knows how many other passengers use the car is any better than putting the phone at some other fixed location behind at least some cursory level of security.

It's also not leaving the phone at the mercy of an unknowable number of future Waymo customers until it got back to the depot.

You mean the Waymo cars that are bristling with dozens of cameras and sensors? The Waymo service where I immediately contacted Support and informed them, so they could recall the vehicle or have it meet a worker who could search it? Dunno, dude.

> She offered to leave the phone in a pharmacy across town! I don't know how that would've helped.

If I had been the one to find your phone, I probably would have told you to suggest some other drop off place I can take it to that isn't too far out of my way, and if you could not or would not I would have probably taken it to a police station.

I would not leave it in the Waymo, even if that is what you wanted, because I have no guarantee that some other Waymo passenger after me will find it and steal it before you can get it back from Waymo. That could leave me as the last person known to have been in possession of the phone. I have no interest in becoming a suspect in the theft of your phone.

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