Huawei prepares to split from Android on consumer devices with HarmonyOS Next
theregister.com
theregister.com
If it is Android compatible, those issues will go away and I could see this taking off externally. Huawei phones are popular in many countries (not the US) as they're cheap and reasonable quality for the price, even if they have had scandal after scandal. Many consumers won't really care about the backstory.
Edit: sounds from other comments like it will not be Android API compatible.
Sounds like they’re cheap in price but high in cost.
Also HN: Apple want to charge HOW MUCH for building an ecosystem?!
To be clear, I don't really lean to one side or the other on this, I just find it interesting that both of these are common views to hold.
But it's worse, because it impacts you even if you're not an app developer. Even when you think you're paying other people, Google and Apple often assert that it has a right to the cut, like joining a YouTube membership. When apps are pushed to use IAPs with a cut, you wind up paying more and having less of it go to the intended recipient, and because apps are limited on what they're allowed to communicate, they can't really adequately warn you that this is going to happen. Some smaller apps wherein the IAP cut seriously doesn't make sense, more along the lines of banking, wind up having to just give up altogether on accepting payments, because they simply don't have the power to fight Apple and Google when they get wrongly rejected.
App stores that don't even let you tell people they're being ripped off by app store policies feel like things that people in "hacker" culture would not be apt to defend as good even if they believe it is completely legal, and I sincerely wonder how this became the norm for a lot of people.
I'm also not sure why some of these transactions potentially being scummy makes it any better the way Apple and Google control the markets. If anything, they're profiting hand-over-fist from it and absolutely encouraging it.
Windows CE/Pocket PC, Symbian, Epoch, J2ME, BREW, Blackberry predated iPhone for a decade, with app stores provided by phone operators.
There are so many things you could unpack, like for example, the fact that building an ecosystem costs so much now literally because you have to compete with Apple and Google, or, for example, that I don't actually think the issue at hand is how much Apple "deserves" to be able to charge for building an ecosystem, though I'm sure if it came down to it, "30% of nearly all monetary transactions for literally forever on most phones in the U.S." is not the value most people would come to.
I know there's going to be some temptation to argue about that, but sincerely, please don't. It's just not the point. My point really is, why? This thread didn't even have anything to do with this other than being about app distribution.
FWIW I'm not trying to take either side, it's a complex, nuanced topic. But, HN isn't very good at nuance, and I was intending to make a comment on the conflicting viewpoints that many seem to hold, which is a far more interesting situation to me than the specifics of this situation.
You're right that part of the cost of building an ecosystem now is competing with the incumbents, although I'm sure you could make this argument throughout history with different incumbents, if at a smaller scale.
Doesn't Russia have Aurora OS (from Sailfish)?:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora_OS_(Russian_Open_mobile...
I'm not sure how successful it's been.
Make friends not enemies
RISC-V moved into Switzerland to protected themselves against US politics.
We tell a country you can no longer use our toys. You've been sanctioned! They develop their own toys that threaten to infiltrate us and the rest of the world - much in the same way the original toys do.
We forced them to learn to fish on their own. They are no longer bound to us.
Maybe Michael Corleone was right when he said... "keep your friends close but your enemies closer."
For what it's worth in practical terms, I can't tell you if everyone in China complies with every license, but Huawei is one of the largest contributors to the linux kernel and several open source projects.
As someone from a third world country it is like watching two bullies fight each other in the school. Well, both of them spy on me, both of them abuse me (I'm Mexican) and both of them think they are always right. For me, both of them are pretty similar.
And they have to contribute to Linux and other open source projects in order to have an Android-compatible operating system. At some point you need to either fix bugs or add features to support your own hardware. But this shouldn't be seen as altruism.
That's a nice way of excusing yourself for claiming they're not complying with the GPL, when incorrect.
As does the USA. As do other western nations.
I have _never_ gotten the "information is free!" vibe from HN. That was like 80s/90s hacker culture, not 2020s HN. There's a lot of devs and business people here, neither of which are fond of licenses being abused in general.
The US and its brethren better wake up and smell the coffee or they will share the fate of the british empire.
The past five years were enough to teach the West to pull out of China and move manufacturing and investment dollars to India, Vietnam, and Mexico.
Mexico is going to be the near-shoring super hub for America, and Texas is going to be an incredible beneficiary of that switch. Many analysts are saying this will push Texas GDP over that of California.
China didn't have enough time to develop a strong domestic consumer base, and now it's seeing a pull back from international buyers as it simultaneously has to contend with massive economic issues at home.
America, meanwhile, has a ten-plus year lead on semiconductors and the burgeoning AI field. It basically got to reap the upside of cheap Chinese manufacturing while it lasted and keep all the best for itself. Now it's actively re-configuring the world's supply chains. You can see America making big changes to worldwide shipping and energy, too. Even OPEC is powerless to control pricing now. And as an added bonus, America feels re-invigorated by competition and is pushing itself to work harder.
I wouldn't shed a single tear for America. It got exactly what it wanted and is moving on from the relationship.
Compared to what? China is building thousands of kilometers of high speed rail seemingly every year. They’re expanding their power through trade agreements rather than military force. They can manufacture whatever they want.
From where I am sitting it looks like China keeps growing while the US declines. Our economy is so broken people can’t afford rent, school and medical debt are skyrocketing, our planes keep falling apart, we have the highest prison population ever, mass shootings keep happening, and more and more Americans are living in cars.
I think it only looks fine to us because we’re too xenophobic to look outside our borders and see how different things could be.
That just sounds like you're ignorant about what is happening in China.
The economy is in perilous shape after they allowed a completely unregulated financial sector to finance the property sector. Now there are major contagion fears as well as what the impact to consumers will be given 70% of household wealth comes from property.
Combined with a very low birth rate, rapid ageing and decreasing manufacturing competitiveness due to high costs the country is in serious trouble. Far worse than the US.
I've heard their economy is in perilous shape for years now. The people speaking of the 'coming collapse of china's economy' seem just like perma-bears here.
These assumptions have shown to be wrong, time and time again, but surely the collapse is coming right, if we believe hard enough?
Am I reading this right? By that logic the entire western developed world has been dead and buried for a long time now.
Many analysts state this has been overbuilt to the point of being gross malinvestment [1-6, etc]. All of those miles require tremendous and costly annual upkeep, and the ridership numbers won't adequately subsidize these costs.
> They’re expanding their power through trade agreements rather than military force. They can manufacture whatever they want.
The results of this remain to be seen. eg. they're dumping cheap EVs on Europe because their domestic market is saturated for Chinese products; meanwhile, the West is pulling back from trade.
> From where I am sitting it looks like China keeps growing while the US declines.
The US is hardly declining. US GDP growth is an astounding 6%, which is almost unprecedented for a developed economy. The rest of your assessment feels like progressive political talking points. Moderates and conservatives would feel very differently.
> we’re too xenophobic
It's xenophobic to have an ill outlook on the Chinese economy? What if one maintains a positive outlook on the Indian, Vietnamese, and Mexican economies? Or Taiwanese? Is that xenophobic?
[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/are-chinas-high-speed-t...
[2] https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Caixin/China-s-railway-inv...
[3] https://www.ft.com/content/a9337b06-fe20-11e0-a1eb-00144feab...
[4] https://www.orfonline.org/expert-speak/chinas-high-speed-rai...
[5] https://www.eurasiantimes.com/a-whopping-900b-debt-chinas-on...
[6] https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Transportation/China-Railwa...
What a colonist mindset to think those countries aren't able to take advantage of free learning and move on by themselves.
India is not stupid and I'm willing to bet Mexico and Vietnam aren't either. They'll only be too happy to accept western money in order to further industrialize and strengthen themselves.
I know this isn't Reddit, but can you show your work here? Why are you jumping to such wild conclusions on HN?
These countries are on a rapid rise, fueled by their own domestic growth. None of them are subjugated to the US or the West. Lots of new factories are being built and investors are now pouring in capital.
America has elected to trade more closely. It would be stupid not to.
Great Firewall would like a word…
HarmonyOS begat China's first ministry of open source, where all the big names lined up behind OpenAtom foundation, to carry the work forward. There's ongoing efforts in tons of sectors to use the technology: mobile of course, but also in-vehicle, medical, energy and industrial. There's a neat LiteOS based low kernel that integrates with the ecosystem,Linux, and now microkernels that can run Linux compatibility layers semi-alooe Fuschia.
The UI system is a pretty interesting thing extending TypeScript, ArkUI, with a very complete integrative ark tool.
What I find really unique and compelling is the DSoftBus, which is a kind of semi-automatic distributed object layer that apps more or less get built on by default. In theory, it should be a fantastic uniquotous & pervasive computing layer, where apps and devices by default can be accessed and controlled without the app or controller having to custom code the effort; many of the advantages of something like grpc but with automatic networking & not having to think about the effort, with distributed objects being more normal.
The Android story is so boring. Android is boring. Android has done almost nothing of interest for a decade anyways: like most OS it is still & subservient, barely present, letting apps run the show. It's such a boring story to discuss HarmonyOS on compare to another boring unmoving bland OS doing nothing. HarmonyOS has some interesting actual change its working for, and we should be actually diving into that, rather than this persistently bland ass coverage. Even The Reg fails to unearth a single notable useful thing to say.
I wish coverage were better. Alas Huawei requires a passport photo & bank information to sign up for the very powerful dev account. There's the OpenHarmony code available on the state run gitee, but there's very little help on how to assemble & turn the dozens of repos into anything usable, alas. And it seems like HarmonyOS Next is much more prosperity than the OpenAtom OpenHarmony efforts, further confounding assessment. Still, it seems like while some layers like the kernel might change, it seems like continuity will be maintained on many levels like DSoftBus and ArkUI. It'd be worthwhile to actually dig in & understand merit here, especially given how bereft & unmoving OSes have been on all other fronts; Android support is not particularly interesting. https://gitee.com/openharmony
Now yes, there's probably a whole damn lot of artistic license and hot air in these achievements, but the old saying goes that smoke doesn't rise where there is no fire.
And if you look at the videos of HarmonyOS the UI is clearly ripped off from Apple.
What's important is whether you can innovate and build something compelling not just copy.
So you've decided to completely ignore their birth rate numbers? Because "achievements like these" will mean absolutely nothing for their capitalist economy when their population shrinks to 25% of current numbers. And that's ignoring the whole fact that the second they stop being a cheap source of labor, the west will look elsewhere (which they've already started to do).
You can't "centrally plan" your way out of young people not wanting to reproduce.
Sure you can. China has plenty of experience in adjusting the birthrate via hefty government intervention.
Almost everyone wants to have children if the conditions are right; the handful of misanthropes who don't are irrelevant. The reasons people choose not to are things that are eminently addressable by a government; risk that it will damage their career, fear they won't be able to support their children materially, or that they'll make damaging mistakes when raising them.