NASA unlocks $1B canister of asteroid dust | Hacker News Reader

NASA unlocks $1B canister of asteroid dust

theguardian.com

125 pointspg_123462 comments

Odd that the article about finally opening the canister didn't actually include any photos of the inside of the canister.

You can see it on the official article here: https://www.nasa.gov/image-article/nasas-osiris-rex-curation...

Mildly interesting: I opened the titular image in a new tab hoping to find a higher resolution one, only to see that NASA.gov is using Wordpress, and the original image file is a whopping 102 megapixels, with all EXIF info intact, taken by a Fujifilm GFX100s. A suiting tool to take a photo of an object worth $1B.

https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/orex-high-re...

This image is something that makes me grateful for technology, a probe was sent into our solar system, rendezvoused with a rock, colected a sample, returned back to earth and I am able to view a high resolution image on my phone almost as soon as the canister was opened. The amount of technology to make this work in space and on my phone is too long to figure out in full but bravo to all the engineers from NASA to camera makers to WordPress and everything on every layer in between that they are built on, I salute you all!

Why shouldn't they use WordPress? I'd be pissed if they'd wasted taxpayers dollars coming up with a bespoke system because NIH. It's a CMS.

I can't find any suggestion that they shouldn't use WordPress in the post you replied to.

"only to see" sets up a contrast between what was initially expected and what was actually discovered

Part “Space-grade CMS”: $45’000’000

The Soviets used a handwritten HTML file served with Apache

Most likely they would use an older version of NGINX:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Nginx-logo.png

comrade gi-bin

Gold plated and radiation hardened

the high res image is linked at the bottom of the article.

https://images.nasa.gov/details/jsc2024e006057 https://images-assets.nasa.gov/image/jsc2024e006057/jsc2024e...

Interesting how that image is so 'scale free' it could be almost any size. The only giveaways are the screw heads visible elsewhere outside of the cylinder and even those could be in quite a range.

That’s a relatively inexpensive choice, nicely suited to the job. Could have gone with a h6d-400ms for a bit more resolution ;)

Anything from Hasselblad is sadly not usable for US govt projects because they are owned by DJI now

Dow Jones Index?

SZ DJI Technology Co., Ltd. or Shenzhen DJI Sciences and Technologies Ltd. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJI

> is a whopping 102 megapixels, with all EXIF info intact, taken by a Fujifilm GFX100s

I jest, but it seems like that camera is able to take photos up to 400MP, by automatically combining 16 RAW photos taken in succession ("Pixel Shift Multi Shot"). So they did lazy the job just a tiny bit ;)

That's a lot of hot pixels for base ISO! Could be the focus stacking intensified them.

That camera can actually get a bit more resolution out of sensor movements, though the lens might be at its limit already, or focus was still a little off. edit: it's probably the glovebox glass.

What is a "suiting tool"? It's not a term I have heard before, and a quick web search did not turn anything up.

They mean that it is a good match, that it the tool suits the situation, or that it is suitable

> only to see that NASA.gov is using Wordpress

Gotta give them some slack, they just spent 4 months struggling with two screws. This isn't the space race NASA anymore.

- "This isn't the space race NASA anymore."

To be fair, Apollo engineering failed badly on similar problems (with moon samples),

- "But in spite of all this beautiful complexity, there were just basic, fundamental mistakes,” Dr. Degroot said."

- "NASA officials were well aware that the lab wasn’t perfect. Dr. Degroot’s paper details many of the findings from inspections and tests that revealed gloveboxes and sterilizing autoclaves that cracked, leaked or flooded."

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/09/science/nasa-moon-quarant...

https://gwern.net/doc/existential-risk/2023-degroot.pdf (pdf)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36266360 (33 comments)

(The goal in that case wasn't to protect the sample integrity, but to contain alien pathogens).

late edit: Another related example (lunar soil),

- "Although this material has been isolated in vacuum-packed bottles, it is now unusable for detailed chemical or mechanical analysis—the gritty particles deteriorated the knife-edge indium seals of the vacuum bottles; air has slowly leaked in."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_soil#Availability_on_Ear...

That was the old "move fast and break things" NASA.

Oh how quickly we're all entitled. It came from deep space. Can you give it a minute?

Everything is awesome and nobody's happy. -->

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PdFB7q89_3U

I think they were trying to avoid the scenario: move fast, break things, contaminate $1B sample.

Or another scenario, which is a possibility when personalities in charge don't get enough sleep: move fast, break things, snort lines of $1B asteroid dust on Rogan.

It's not even necessary to contaminate it. All that's necessary is behind unable to rule out contamination.

Despite all the shit people give wordpress, this works way better than yet another Node.js atrocity that needs 700 MB of JavaScript to render text.

We should just have a starship go crash into an asteroid. :p

Its got to get to orbit first, you have to launch enough of them to refuel the first one. I have no doubt they will get them to work, but its not an option yet.

I'm pretty sure they could get enough methane out of Elon Musk running his mouth to send a probe to Pluto. Probably have enough left over to catch up with Voyager 1.

>Odd that the article about finally opening the canister didn't actually include any photos of the inside of the canister.

This is normal for modern "journalism".

Video of removing the stuck screws

https://images.nasa.gov/details/OSIRIS-REx%20Asteroid%20Samp...

The most high pressure unscrewing of that guy's life.

“Don’t screw up” the thought before wondering… well then, which way should the screw go?

The fixture they used to remove the bolts is pretty interesting. Looks like a milled aluminum two part clamp for a ratchet with a 3in extension. It is interesting that they claim to have milled their own Torq-set bit but the picture shows a commercial/OTS 1/4" to hex adapter.

In response, two new multi-part tools were designed and fabricated to support further disassembly of the TAGSAM head. These tools include newly custom-fabricated bits made from a specific grade of surgical, non-magnetic stainless steel; the hardest metal approved for use in the pristine curation gloveboxes.

https://blogs.nasa.gov/osiris-rex/2024/01/11/nasas-osiris-re...

https://www.phillips-screw.com/drive_systems/torq-set/

How can you tell it’s a commercial bit? The part with writing on it looks like it’s an adapter, the bit itself does not seem to have any visible markings.

Sorry for unclarity--that's not my query/assertion. Assertion: looks like a commercial adapter. Query: why use the commercial adapter if you are already milling a custom bit?

There are probably some practical answers to this if I gave it enough thought. Like, the CAD file to mill a hex bit was already available to NASA; or, it kept the overall length the same so the clamp could be developed in parallel.

I think they're concerned about the bit wearing the fastener etc. But the adapter has a much more secure mating. I've stripped plenty of screws, but never managed to damage one of these adapters. That said, I've only broken one socket in my life; so I'm not a big tool abuser; maybe someone else has a story of breaking one of these.

Yeah, I think there are 24 or so Torq-set screws to unscrew once in the TAGSAM, so wear probably isn't a problem.

a 3in extension

Didn't NASA agree to go fully metric under Obama after the cancellation of Constellation?

The metric conversion was much earlier, see below. NASA probably has people/processes/systems in place to communicate in freedom units even if the internal unit makes it tricky to determine a third of something.

In 1930, the British Standards Institution adopted an inch of exactly 25.4 mm. The American Standards Association followed suit in 1933. By 1935, industry in 16 countries had adopted the "industrial inch" as it came to be known, effectively endorsing Johansson's pragmatic choice of conversion ratio.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inch

In case anyone else wanted to know what they spent these months doing and why it took so much time to take care of those two screws:

https://news.arizona.edu/story/nasas-osiris-rex-curation-tea...

TLDR: They have to use hardware from approved tool kits, so the process of making new hardware to unstuck screws is a whole thing

The Canadian in me wants to point out that this problem could have been avoided if they’d just used Robertson head.

Is anyone familiar with the matter able to comment on the use of Torq-set fasteners? Are they a standard for these sort of use cases? They seem to be used frequently in Aerospace? I tend to use Torx whenever possible, are these better? Or should they have used something else to avoid such issues?

It's a fastener used mostly in the military, developed by Phillips purely to get the military using its proprietary/patented design to extract as much tax dollars as possible. It is widely reviled by aviation mechanics because it strips at the drop of a hat and is difficult to torque.

It is only in use because "it's what we have billions of dollars sunk into existing tools and fastener stock" despite it being wildly inferior to torx, as demonstrated by the fact that NASA needed to make a gigantic fucking C-clamp to keep it from camming out.

Consider that the entire point of the Phillips head (which the torq-set is just a different pattern of) is purposefully designed to cam out to limit torque so that someone can't guerilla it so tight the head snaps off. Which is not an issue in aerospace where everything is assembled with calibrated, precision drivers.

Using it on a "we critically need to be able to get this apart later" part is beyond asinine on NASA's part.

NASA are a bunch of dinosaurs incapable of change. It's really cringe seeing them toot their horns so much about solving a problem that never would have occurred if they weren't using a fastener that even a fresh-out-of-school aircraft mechanic could have told them wasn't appropriate for this application.

NASA got what they deserve. The could just ask every single aircraft mechanic about this one. Especially bloody torq-set. With budget they had. They could machine any head the wanted, and yet they've chosen stupidest one out there.

According to the link posted in another comment, they don't look like Torx at all, and the main marketing points are:

  "Offset cruciform shape with straight wing walls

  Greater torque transfer
  Removal walls larger than drive walls

  Facilitates disassembly without drill outs"

https://www.phillips-screw.com/drive_systems/torq-set/

I first learned about torx when I was a kid as Commodore used torx screws on the Amiga 500. One time I wired up a pseudo SRAM from Active Electronics on a breadboard by putting an interposer in the CPU socket to pull out the signals I needed. Put it in an unused part of the address space and added it to the memory pool. Oh, the fun that hackable hardware was in the 1980s!

I'm guessing they didn't want to crack it open, drill or cut through it for fear of contamination?

That and any new tools being introduced need to not introduce anything "from earth" otherwise upon analysis you'll get false positives all over the place.

What an epic achievement, congratulations to the NASA Mission Team!

> … asteroid Bennu, which is classified as a “potentially hazardous” because it has one in 1,750 chance of crashing into Earth by 2300.

I stopped caring about screws after I read this.

They should have just used some WD-40, would have opened right up!

WD-40 is not a lubricant, it is a Water Displacer.

Given the parent comment didn't mention lube, we can say that there was water to displace in the returned sample:

Initial studies of the 4.5-billion-year-old asteroid Bennu sample collected in space and brought to Earth by NASA show evidence of high-carbon content and water

https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasas-bennu-asteroid-sampl...

We're talking about inside the threads of the fastener, not the contents of the sample...

The contents spilled out just about everywhere. Spray WD40, reboot, give it a love tap and say “Aayy” with your thumbs up.

FTA - Apophis might be on track to smash into planet Earth, but those fears have diminished and scientists anticipate it will pass closer to Earth in 2029 than any object of its size ever has.

https://www.esa.int/ESA_Multimedia/Images/2021/03/Earth_s_gr...

Zuckerberg’s Bunker Plans Fuel Speculation on Billionaires Building Bunkers

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38866773

> NASA unlocks $1B canister of asteroid dust

Only $1B ? /s

Reply on news.ycombinator.com