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Comment by Al-Khwarizmi | Hacker News Reader

I haven't visited Malta but Singapore would be one of my top choices if I had to migrate somewhere (if not the top).

Big city but you can go anywhere at any time and feel extremely safe. Impressive public transport. Amazing food, probably the best among countries I've visited. Everyone speaks English but you can enjoy a mix of Chinese, Malay, Indian cultures. The people tend to be quite nice. Good economy. Feeling of growth, rather than decadence like in much of the West, every time I go there seem to be several new MRT lines. Sane politics (see public housing, etc.) Plenty of places to visit, activities and things to do.

It's not perfect, maybe a bit too hot and I don't like their long working hours and exploiting of maids, but in my view it's top notch. On March I'll go to Malta, let's see how I compares, but I doubt I'll like it more (no offense to Malta, as I said, the think is that I really have a good concept of Singapore).

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Having to be completely obedient to the state wears on the soul. All migrants experience this to a certain extent in any country but in Singapore it’s turned up to 11. The fruits of capitalistic success might be enjoyable for a while, but it’s a shallow existence. I think that Singapore is enjoyable in small doses.

> Having to be completely obedient to the state wears on the soul

I think this is very overstated, people break laws and talk shit all the time. Just don't do drugs and be an asshole and you should be fine, many laws are not enforced

While this is true - that many laws are broken, with the government looking the other way, or citizens just keeping their mouths shut - the statements made by Singapore's leadership sends a chill down my spine.

Just recently they made unilateral (clearly, because PAP controls Parliament and has since the country's founding) changes to the law that police don't need a warrant to search someone if there is a "reasonable suspicion the person may destroy evidence prior to a warrant". Not to mention there is no "right to remain silent" or "right to lawyer" (before making a statement), etc, etc.

But what really caught my notice was the quote from the Minister of Justice - “There is no downside to this amendment because if they search and they find the evidence, or if they do not find the evidence, no one is worse off."

To me that is wild. Invasion of privacy of an innocent individual and "no one is worse off". There isn't even an attempt to talk about trade offs - "yes, this is in invasion of privacy, but we're carefully balancing it against the need for an effective police force". Just straight up "searching the private space of an innocent individual is insignificant".

That said, there is overwhelming support for this kind of law in Singapore. There was a recent poll that asked something like "Do you agree with this statement: It is better that there is stability than democratic rights." and 70-80% of Singaporeans said "yes".

So "meh?". I may recoil at the very premise of the system, but Singaporeans seem to like it.

> It is better that there is stability than democratic rights." and 70-80% of Singaporeans said "yes".

I think you'll find similar opinions in all of the east asian countries like south korea, taiwan, japan, china. Lived in singapore for a few years, I think it's great to visit but don't know if I'd want to live there; one party state, strict laws etc. Taxes are low though, so that's pretty nice.

Singapore has pretty insane politics (e.g. being a dissident blogger is practically a capital crime) but excellent city planning.

The working culture is also toxic af and there is a strict racial hierarchy (enforced by violence when challenged) that made me deeply uncomfortable living there.

Great weather, housing, food, city planning and public transport though.

I wish my government tried to clone their fantastic commieblocks and not their oppressive, oligarchic style of government but alas they do the opposite.

> being a dissident blogger is practically a capital crime

Oh, for f*ck's sake.

Hacker News and unbridled exaggeration, name a better combination.

Look, I get that Singapore's leaders are especially litigious, and they are rightly criticised for it by a plurality of the population.

However, a defamation lawsuit is a far cry from a death sentence.

Somehow I get the feeling most commenters who criticise Singapore for its 'draconian authoritarian totalitarian xyz-itarian oligarchic police state laws' have never set foot in the place.

Sure "capital crime" is hyperbole, but the authoritarian nature of the government is well known.

I mean a guy was arrested for holding up a piece of cardboard with a smiley face drawn on it for a few seconds while someone took a picture of it. This was deemed "unlawful assembly without a permit". He had already spent time in prison for prior protests in support of Hong Kong.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/24/singapore-smil...

> "unlawful assembly without a permit"

Dunno why you put it in quotes: it's in Singapore law[1].

[1]: Public Order Act 2009: https://sso.agc.gov.sg/Act/POA2009

> Somehow I get the feeling most commenters who criticise Singapore for its 'draconian authoritarian totalitarian xyz-itarian oligarchic police state laws' have never set foot in the place.

Rather ironically, if the original comment about "dissident blogger is a capital crime" is literally true, your observation basically confirms it due to survival bias, because nobody could criticize Singapore's government while being physically there. :)

That said, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.

>However, a defamation lawsuit is a far cry from a death sentence.

Defamation lawsuits in Singapore are far worse than in the west. They are both rigged and designed to bankrupt you. Being a target wont mean you get killed but it will ruin your life.

>Somehow I get the feeling most commenters who criticise Singapore for its 'draconian authoritarian totalitarian xyz-itarian oligarchic police state laws' have never set foot in the place.

I lived there. I was there for the riots and I was there for the bus drivers strike where the police violently brutalized the foreign strikers for having the temerity to object to racial pay scales.

Hacker news opinion mostly comes from people who went to Singapore on holiday once and now thinks theyre an expert on it or white people who lived there liked being near the top of the racial hierarchy.

> They are both rigged and designed to bankrupt you

They're not much worse than in what goes on in England[1], it would appear. Anyway, I said as much myself, but I was pointing out your ridiculous hyperbole. I'll say it again—a defamation lawsuit, however heavy the penalty, is nowhere close to a death sentence.

This is all the more confusing, since Singapore actually has the capital penalty for certain crimes. Funny you choose to call out defamation lawsuits, of all things.

> I lived there. I was there for the riots and I was there for the bus drivers strike where the police violently brutalized the foreign strikers for having the temerity to object to racial pay scales

There is so much wrong with this statement I don't even know where to start. Firstly, I'm guessing you did not 'live there': you lived in an expat bubble taking home six-plus digits with your family taken care of, chauffeured between work and your Holland Village/Bukit Timah/River Valley condo in a taxi or car that your expat package paid for.

Next, the bus riots started because of drunk and disorderly behaviour. The police never brutalised anyone, and there was widespread commentary amongst locals about just how many policemen were needed to control the situation, and how meek they were (which makes sense, given the civil defence and the police in Singapore are largely conscripts aged 19 – 22).

Finally, nothing 'brutal' happened even in the bus strikes the year before. They were arrested, and deported. Full stop.

It exasperates me to no end when foreigners nitpick on some so-called affront to freedom in Singapore (that doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things), when there are more serious and insidious issues that deeply affect the local (and even migrant populace) like male-only conscription, the skyrocketing cost of living, the car-first urban planning despite Singapore's government supposedly despising cars, and the classism and racism going on. Notice both you and someone else who pointed this out in this thread, which I upvoted—because it is fact, and not rage-baiting hyperbole.

I am inclined to take anyone less seriously if they complain about 'police brutality' in Singapore. The Singapore police are amongst the meekest and friendliest lot I've ever seen.

[1]: https://www.economist.com/1843/2023/12/01/britains-scariest-...

>They're not much worse than in what goes on in England[1], it would appear.

I've never heard of anybody ever having their life ruined because they wrote something in a blog about the UK prime minister. People write a lot of band things about him, some of it lies even. The UK's libel laws are definitely broken but Singapore's libel laws are just a weapon of the autocracy to crush dissent.

>This is all the more confusing, since Singapore actually has the capital penalty for certain crimes.

Yes, that's why it's called Disneyland with the Death Penalty. An article so accurate that the prime minister decided to ban Wired magazine in a fit of pique.

>There is so much wrong with this statement I don't even know where to start. Firstly, I'm guessing you did not 'live there': you lived in an expat bubble taking home six-plus digits with your family taken care of, chauffeured between work and your Holland Village/Bukit Timah

False. I shared a room in an HDB. I took the bus to work. I ate at food courts.

>Next, the bus riots started because of drunk and disorderly behaviour.

The riots in little india started because it took an ambulance an hour to arrive when somebody low on the racial totem pole got hit by a vehicle. I think they might have died.

>The police never brutalised anyone

There was an excellent article written in the WSJ that detailed exactly what happened to the imprisoned bus drivers during the bus strike. Yes, they were beaten in jail. Singapore does not tolerate labour power. Capital rules supreme. NTUC is an arm of the government.

>It exasperates me to no end when foreigners nitpick on some so-called affront to freedom in Singapore (that doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things), when there are more serious and insidious issues that deeply affect the local (and even migrant populace) like male-only conscription, the skyrocketing cost of living, the car-first urban planning despite Singapore's government supposedly despising cars, and the classism and racism going on.

Freedom of speech and labour power is necessary in order to fix these things.

>I am inclined to take anyone less seriously if they complain about 'police brutality' in Singapore. The Singapore police are amongst the meekest and friendliest

Oh they're fine provided you're not a migrant worker, which you clearly aren't. I'm guessing you're probably local Chinese.

>enjoy a mix of Chinese, Malay, Indian cultures

Apart from the food, what specifically about these cultures is enjoyable?

Their language, literature, music, history, and art.

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