I have the same setup. I used it to make a green light go on when we have more than 500 watt excess solar production, so my wife knows she can turn on the washing machine for free.
The dryer has to warm air up pretty continuously to dry the contents. At 500W I assume it's a heat pump? (IIRC condensers are usually around or above 1kW)
The dryer is a heat pump yes, some years ago it was the most energy efficient one we could find. (But I guess it runs longer, relying more on tumbling than heat, and wears out cloth faster).
Also, I wonder why compressors in heatpumps are not multi-speed (basically energy consumption can be modulated). If you are an expert please let me know I'd love to talk more.
You can find them but they'll be in the semi-professional space and above (relatively expensive high-duty).
They're very rare in the consumer space because
- it requires running more hot water lines / extensions, historically houses are built with lots of cold water lines but hot water lines only where required
- for their heating requirement, a normal electric plug is more than sufficient in the land of 230V, this is is a similar issue to kettles basically
- they require an internal heater anyway as residential water circuits come nowhere near the high temperature cycles: 50-53C is common to avoid risks of scalding but some are set as low as 45, the standard high temp cycles for washing machines are 60 and 90, and dishwasher commonly have a heavy cycle around 65
- it makes the machines more convoluted since they needs more inlets, a mixing valve, etc...
- they're not really compatible with hot water tanks: you don't want your dishes or laundry to empty your shower water, plus hot water tanks are commonly electrical so there's no real gain given per the above the machines need a heater anyway
US uses a split phase system so you can combine two 120V circuits to get 240V. This is how most heavy appliances are wired.
Unless the prior owner was a welder anyway. Then you might have a few in the garage.
Either way, not convenient for kettles.
And yes, the 240V outlets are set up for heavy appliances rather than small countertop appliances. Remember, we were talking about washing machines and dishwashers, and the claim that European appliances don’t need to consume hot water because they have 230V circuits. American appliances have 240V circuits and they still consume hot water so that’s not a satisfying explanation.
It’s true that Americans don’t plug electric kettles into a 240V plug. There are a few reasons for that:
* Americans generally prefer coffee to tea. So the tea kettle is usually a lower priority in an American household compared to a British one.
* Stovetop tea kettles and microwaves are both perfectly fine at boiling water. Are they as optimal? Maybe not but it’s not a priority. (Microwaves might be just as fast actually.)
* Electric kettles work totally fine on a 120V circuit anyway. I have one. Is it as fast as it would be on a 240V circuit? No, but it’s not a priority. We probably make up the time difference by having faster dishwashers and washing machines that consume hot water in addition to using 240V power.
No one installs L30R/L6-30R receptacles in the US for ‘normal’ (as in used by a human for random stuff) use as standard practice, because yes - most of the time no one needs it. Maximum power for a normal 120/20 amp branch circuit is 2.4kw, and that’s 7.2kw. The most I’ve ever actually had a use for in a residential building was 50 amp @ 240v (arc gouging), but I did setup 50 amp @ 480v for a massive CNC milling machine once.
And when someone does, it’s a special case.
Most of Europe and Asia, they have receptacles that can handle that kind of load. And many other wiring changes.
But they also don’t really use them to capacity very often either.
But it is convenient to be able to run a decent welder off a normal house outlet in Germany or Singapore if you want.
Sorry about that, but I’m not sure how you expected me to know that about you or why we’re arguing about tea kettles. I think I inferred more disagreement from context than we actually have. Do we actually disagree about anything here or are we all good? At the very least I think we’re on the same page about washing machines, which was the original point of contention here.
And yes, the point about welding is a good one; higher voltage standards are a lot more convenient for that.
Maybe also a very high spec gaming PC, which here could run (monitors and all) from a single outlet. Would tripping the breaker have been a concern at a 2000s LAN party in the USA? I have no idea.
In some countries it's common to have a 400V (3 phase) socket in the garage. Excellent for car charging, but that is also OK from 230V. That is probably by far the biggest current benefit of 230V everywhere. Charge the car at a decent speed at that holiday cottage in the mountains.
And the kitchen, for electric ranges.
Having never heard of it until now I’m very curious what the use-case for a residential arc gouging machine is.
The UK versions from the same brand are 3000 watts, but only reduces the boil time by 1 minute.
I'm not sure about efficiency one way or the other, but it's interesting to note that double the power does not yield one half boil time.
Additionally, at this elevation I would estimate my morning coffee, Americano (Italian coffee that requires boiled water), takes less time to make than it would at higher wattage at sea level. I'm only guessing.
I think it comes down to practicality more than either culture's love of tea or coffee.
Yeah, come to think of it a coffee machine is solving a very similar problem to an electric kettle. Whats more, I’ve even used a drip coffee maker as a makeshift electric kettle before. So that was just a dumb argument on my part. Thanks for bailing me out with actual data on the diminishing returns of dumping more power into an electric kettle!
A modern European washing machine uses 30-50 litres per wash, vs 75-100 for a modern American one.
That's also halved the time required to heat the necessary water, so another reason a hot water connection might not be so useful
Europeans are going to look at the energy efficiency sticker that by law must be displayed with the machine, either out of altruism, to reduce the running cost, or because the machine with A must be better than the one with G. See the coloured symbols on [1] and the more detailed information if you click one, showing capacity, water use per cycle and typical annual electricity use.
Walmart's site [2] doesn't show this information anywhere.
[1] https://www.johnlewis.com/browse/electricals/washing-machine...
[2] https://www.walmart.com/browse/home/all-washing-machines/404...
All the energy usage and other details would be on the website of a retailer that actually sells appliances, like Home Depot/Lowes/Best Buy/Costco/etc.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Electrolux-4-5-cu-ft-Stackable-F...
> Europeans are going to look at the energy efficiency sticker that by law must be displayed with the machine,
The US has this too with. See in “Details” in above link:
>Energy Consumption (kWh/year) 85
>Energy Efficiency Tier Rating Tier II
Maybe we just have bigger washing machines? You need to control for washer capacity to make a fair comparison here. If you need to do twice as many loads of laundry because you can only fit half as much laundry in each load, you’ve gained nothing. And it’s not like having a bigger washing machine requires every load of laundry to use the full water capacity of the machine even if you only do small loads. On older machines you can set a dial for load size while newer ones have sensors for that.
Besides, it’s not like European homes actually have more heavy appliances than American homes. Americans are much more likely to own clothes dryers, despite the fact that Europeans could easily just plug one into any normal outlet.
So what do you do with an induction stove? For ours, we had to combine two 230V connections to get 380V.
In practice, this isn't an issue. Induction devices sold in the US for residential use simply are designed to work on 120V or 240V. The heat output for the 120V ones too limited for some purposes, but once you are up to 240V it's generally not a limiting factor.
20F isn’t an uncommon water temperature for water coming from the city. Can even go a tad cooler in the winter.
Because if you really do mean F, this tells me something I didn't already know about additives to the US water supply.
> - it requires running more hot water lines / extensions, historically houses are built with lots of cold water lines but hot water lines only where required
Don't you need hot lines almost everywhere anyway? Every sink, bath, and shower has both cold and hot lines. So you're simply running two extra hots...one for the washer, one for the dishwasher. But usually dishwasher supply is run off the kitchen sink supply, so the "extra" hot line is just a couple feet. Actually, there's no cold line at all to our dishwashers, only the hot, come to think of it. So there's zero extra piping for the dishwasher in the US, and yes, one extra run for the washer.
> - for their heating requirement, a normal electric plug is more than sufficient in the land of 230V, this is is a similar issue to kettles basically
As other comments mentioned, the US does have 220V plugs for heavy appliances. It's already standard to have 220 in the laundry room and kitchen anyway - the dryer and oven use them. So this doesn't seem to explain the difference. It would be very easy run a 220 to your washer in the US, you'd need maybe two feet of cable and an outlet. Indeed, I don't know if it's code or not, but a lot of laundry rooms especially probably have the 120 outlet the washer uses actually wired up with four conductor cable, with the extra hot unused, because the cable for the dryer is right there next to it and why run the three conductor cable from elsewhere, when it's easier to use the four conductor. So they could literally just pop in the 220 outlet and be done with zero extra work instead, if washers were on 220.
> - they require an internal heater anyway as residential water circuits come nowhere near the high temperature cycles: 50-53C is common to avoid risks of scalding but some are set as low as 45, the standard high temp cycles for washing machines are 60 and 90, and dishwasher commonly have a heavy cycle around 65.
This is incorrect. My washer doesn't have any heating element. The dishwasher does to superheat the water, since at the maximum settings it boils water. (The steam cycle.) The thermistor is set during normal non-steam operation to run at around 130F/54C, which is the temperature of my water heater heater supply, but it's true that inlet temp is not guaranteed; different people will have different settings and the pipe run entails some heat loss. Plus it does need the heating element for the dry cycle.
> - it makes the machines more convoluted since they needs more inlets, a mixing valve, etc...
Dishwashers only have one inlet in the US. It's true that the washer has two, but it's not much more complexity. At least on mine, it just opens both valves at the same time, there is no "mixing valve." If you select hot it only opens the hot valve, warm opens both, and cold opens only the cold.
> - they're not really compatible with hot water tanks: you don't want your dishes or laundry to empty your shower water,
How are they "not really compatible" when it's bog standard? Your dishwasher uses a pretty minimal amount of water (mine fills with 1 gallon.) Washing machines use ~10-20 gallons. The standard hot water tank in the US is 50+ gallons. People do sometimes run out of hot water, but it's not from running the dishwasher at the same time.
Either way GPs point that the lack of 240 stopped / stops US washers from having water heaters is unfounded. There’s almost always a cable with 240 not two feet away.
Another thing I didn’t think about is that a lot of people (not me) have sinks in their laundry rooms, so there’s also cold and hot run there anyway. I wonder if some Europeans aren’t running hot to all their sinks.
edit: I’m not sure it is against code? When I google it it seems to be fairly common advice and allowed under NEC.
Wait what, isn't the minimum temperature where Legionella will die around 60°C? Are you talking of a country where they (noticeably) chlorinate the water? I thought that was very uncommon, except for Southern Spain and Italy. If you set your boiler to 45°C in a country with (nearly) unchlorinated water you'll have a nice Legionella culture after your 3 week vacation.
I wonder what’s up in Europe.
I believe the premise is, with 240V, they can heat faster. So people plumb them with cold when in 240V land, and hot when in 120V land.
The plastics used for some of the inlet circuitry might also age abnormally when it gets 50C water rather than the, say, 10~30C range it is designed for.