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Comment by oinksoft | Hacker News Reader

I'd just like to say that I'm very thankful Firefox has neither invisible scrollbars nor inertial scrolling. F11 is full-screen in Firefox.

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Adding to that, I've no problem whatsoever with Mozilla's choice to not implement these (braindamaged without exception, IMHO) features, as these choices are partially what drives me to use Firefox, and the only feedback Apple might ever listen to with regard to drunk scrolling and suchlike is user uptake.

Here Firefox enables me to vote with my feet.

Friend, using terms like "braindamaged" is really not that constructive. I've seen an uptake in these kinds of posts lately on HN, and I wish you would all tone it down.

Just be polite, rational, constructive and helpful. Only lazy people turn to these spiteful remarks.

Telling the hacker community not to use the term "braindamaged" is one of the most braindamaged things I can think of.

It is sad that a large percentage of people who seek common interests can be so dark to each other. Why does disrespect and self pride seem, at least in the nerd culture today, to be tolerated by so many? I have been in environments where it was cool to be a bully but where the stereotypical computer scientist are known to have been bullied at some point in his/her own life, I am surprised to find such negativity here. I know I shoot myself in the foot when I decide to read the comments from the feeds but maybe I am just looking for a bit of chat and thoughts from fellow people who share my eagerness. I look for guidance and influence from people like the regular viewers on HN.

You do not know it all. You started from somewhere. Your opinion is an opinion. If you are more fortunate in your experience or knowledge then the contributor above you, do good with it. These logical statements above should be a mantra before submitting a comment anywhere online. The web can not be dictated or controlled but a common culture and mass influence can make it a happier place within its communities.

You are making many faulty assumptions, attacking a culture you clearly do not understand in the least. To call something braindamaged in hacker culture is well understood as a personal value judgement with certain connotations. It has absolutely nothing to do with bullying, "darkness", or negativity.

If anything, it is you who is being a bully, barging in and telling us how we should behave without even grasping who we are and how we are behaving now.

Hmm, I humbly admit I was ignorant with the terminology. Obviously I am not deep in the culture you speak of. I am sorry that I pushed my opinion under your comment. These thoughts have been building from other situations. I should have seen this coming.

Maybe I "do not understand in the least". I personally still feel what I said has some merit and was not hard to see that I meant to inspire positivity more so then to come across as judgmental. I think you and me both know I was not bullying you to be something you all are not. I say "all" because you spoke of "we". If you are justified in saying "we" and can't relate/respect what I am saying, then I don't think I want to be part of your circle.

I don't know about this particular series of comments, but I second him on the idea that often some comments on HN smell like "If I troll harder I'm gonna look cooler". It somewhat degrades the overall quality IMO.

But among friends, more flamey rhetoric is acceptable.

Inertia scrolling and auto-hide scrollbars are both features that are easily disabled system-wide in the Lion System Preferences (General for scrollbar visibility, Universal Access -> Mouse & Trackpad -> Trackpad Options for inertia scrolling).

Inertial scrolling felt bad to me at first, but I've come to enjoy it after giving it a fair shot. This is often the case with UI / design changes.

(I also remember being convinced that Win9x-style aliased font rendering was the pinnacle and shunned ClearType and co. for a few years)

Haha, ClearType did suck one some monitors - it looked horrible on some CRTs and earlier LCDs (I clearly remember the pain in my eyes :-)...

Why? You can turn those off globally if you don't like them.

Indeed, and there is no excuse for jerky scrolling and a broken full screen mode.

> there is no excuse for jerky scrolling

Unless those jerks have a 1:1 correspondence to actual user input events

> broken full screen mode

Multiwindow, multiscreen OS supporting only a single maximized window on a single screen, with totally uninformative, pretentious >500ms mandatory transition animation. "Broken"

That’s not how it works. A single app should never try to singlehandedly change the OS. That's just stupid and doesn’t work. Please, self-important developers, don't force me to deal with your personal stupid version of how the OS should work. It's hard enough to deal with the shit that comes out of Apple from time to time.

It’s kinda irrelevant in this case because Mozilla doesn’t actually care about any of this. They are just slow like a snail and incompetent when it come to writing apps for OS X. They don’t want to improve it.

Not that I care.

> a broken full screen mode.

The only broken full screen mode is Lion's. If anything, I am saddened Firefox is switching to that POS.

Agreed. I wish Mozilla would have left an option to retain the current behavior, even if buried in about:config. Lions native fullscreen mode is so much fail it's almost unbelievable that it ever past any internal testing let alone be released to actual customers.

Only in multiple-monitor setups, and for applications that don't support it well, or at all. It's clearly designed for a single display and trackpad gestures, where it works nicely in most cases.

This doesn't excuse applications (e.g., VMware Fusion, sorta-kinda, and then only in some cases, and apparently now Firefox) that are replacing their existing full-screen support that works better in other situations, alas.

Trouble I see is figuring out what a "universally applicable full-screen mode" should even look like in the possible presence of one or more displays arranged arbitrarily, each with one or more virtual desktops. For instance, on my single 27" 16:9 display, I'd prefer browser and e-reader full screen modes with configurable left and right margins, and PDF readers that force portrait documents ONLY into 2-up, non-"continuous" mode, in all these cases with no chrome whatsoever (even when browsing with tabs), while in VMware, I'd prefer an option to choose either Lion-style or "classic" full screen, as I like both for different applications. But, on the whole, imperfect as it remains, I prefer the Lion set-up to Snow Leopard's in most cases. If I ever have room on my desktop for TWO 27" displays, I might say the opposite (and did, in fact, when I had two smaller screens rather than my current set-up).

And both are better than the Windows 8 preview's "full-screen only for crippled, tablet-style applications" model, because, e.g., I WANT Remote Desktop to stay connected in the background (to be fair, though, Windows 7 and 8 do have better built-in "fullish screen" window management features than any OS X version, but this is very easy to fix in OS X with either AppleScript or third-party tools).

Short of writing my own window manager, Web browser, etc., I'd personally be very, very hard to please all the time. Case in point: should Apple support TWO multi-touch trackpads with independent, configurable gestures? Probably not, but that didn't stop me from finding a workaround (hint: Wacom's latest tablets have gesture support).

Heck, I've seriously considered wiring up a MIDI pedal controller as a hyper key in Emacs, but I certainly don't expect any OS to support this out-of-the-box...

People actually use full screen mode on a browser? I thought we were past only being able to see one application at a time, with multiple monitors and higher-resolution screens, I don't understand why you would want to full screen most applications.

The only application I ever full screen is iTerm2, and that's only so I can get enough screen room to open 10 split windows in vim.

My primary machine is an 11" MacBook Air. Its resolution is 1366x768. Full-screen windows are still quite valuable in that form factor, especially so when using mail clients, office software, etc.

Amen to that. Unless I'm on a tiny screen where every pixel counts (i.e. mobile), don't make me guess WTF I should click in a vast empty white area to make the scrollbar appear (I'm looking at you, new gmail).

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