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Comment by cassepipe | Hacker News Reader

Wow, I didn't expect to read once in my life that François Holland was a leftist, except maybe in Valeurs Actuelles (MAGA-like in France)

Are you sure the higher middle class is not having children because of the lack of state support ? Doesn't being higher middle class suggests that you own your house and have at least 3000 euros a month salary ? Isn't it enough for one child ?

Why do you think people not wanting children because they are worried about the state of the planet for their children is because "propaganda" ? Are you saying climate change is propaganda ? Isn't every expert on the subject saying that we are not doing enough and that things are going to be worst even in the best scenarii ?

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thanks for proving my point. 1. francois hollande is from parti socialiste. a left wing movement and was elected with leftist idea such as removing merit grants at the highschool exam, removing financial support to middle class all in the name of equity

2. you consider 3000 a month salary high middle class I consider it barely enough to survive with a family. 3000 salary is 2300 euros after tax with a 1300/months apartment in paris and an apartment buying price of 700-800k euros lol. with 3k€ a month you wont ever own a house… what is wrong with leftist to be deluded in a way that they dont understand that literaly everyone in france is far from wealthy due to cost of life. 3k is def not enough to raise a family knowing government wont support you financially because they thin you are rich.

3. to adress your last point. yes it is propaganda because only western people discuss this topic that way. if you really want to do something about it you should go to africa tell people not to make children rather than promoting your delusion in countries below renewal rates

People in Africa don’t emit nearly as much carbon as westerners do. So no, they don’t have to stop making kids.

france is nuclear so i guess we can continue forever as we have the only working renewable energy. we should forbid people that uses coal to do any kind of trade wdyt? i suggest we put a fence in germany and expand the great wall in china so that the pollution they emit doesnt affect us. wdyt?

France still uses coal. And what does China have to do with Africa, which you explicitly mentioned?

just im following your chain of thought saying that carbon emissions are bad so im targetting the worst offenders

I think any leftist would laugh at the idea that the Parti Socialist is even remotely socialist. The name is historical, they converted to market economics and modern liberal state management as soon as 1981 if not before. I don't think François Hollande is remembered because of removing merit grants lol. If anything he will be remembered for the Loi Travail to make laws around employment more flexible and advantageous to business and for the CICE which was basically free money for businesses if they pinkie promised they would hire more (spoiler they did not)

If your spouse also makes 3000 euros you can totally live very well and raise a family.

I am not deluded thank you. I don't have a family but I live with 1200 euros a month around Paris and although I am poor I am nowhere near miserable. Of course most people own houses thanks to parents participation and of course Paris is too expensive duh.

Now I am curious to know what's your standard of living.

my point is that you cannot use salary as a wealth indicator especially in a cou try where real estate costs are crazy, unemployment rampant and cost of live climbing every week. and that 3k is def poor in term of wealth building prospects. the goal is to climb the ladder not bring everyone down. right now france like uk is failing its people due to low wage, ppp that is climbing down to developed economies

To address your last point...

It's not because people in third world countries don't think about it that it's propaganda.

It's not about doing something about it, it's about not putting out in the world a person who is going to have it worse.

Why do you care so much about renewal ? What is it you want to renew so much ? A gene pool ?

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