Hacker News Reader

Comment by JohnnyHerz | Hacker News Reader

I disagree. The high end of the market is a proven niche and the target high-end buyer has demonstrated a willingness to spend freely on premium grade products.

The is a reason why LVMH (Moët Hennessy Louis Vuitton) is one of the most successful and valuable companies in the world.

I'm not saying it's easy. Any business endeavor, regardless of product market fit, still requires execution. Easier said than done, but many an entrepreneur has proven their critics wrong.

Americans are known for their willingness to take business risk and fail then pick themselves up and try again. Makes life exciting and worth living.

But that said, I'm not going to buy "American Made" just because it is, i'm going to buy "Quality Made" and if it happens to be a domestic manufacturer than all the better!

View on HN

> I disagree. The high end of the market is a proven niche and the target high-end buyer has demonstrated a willingness to spend freely on premium grade products.

Are you saying there is a proven market for luxury toasters?

While in general this is true I think "premium" grade home appliances generally top out around twice the cost of mid-range (I'm thinking vacuums, ovens, refrigerators etc where you compare similar capacity). This probably isn't a sufficient premium to cover the overheads.

Coffee machines are probably an exception here.

I'm not educated about the toaster market - are they more like microwaves or more like coffee machines?

There is a very proven market for luxury kitchen implements. And there are actually "high end" toasters

> Are you saying there is a proven market for luxury toasters?

There’s a proven luxury market for literally anything. Just look at the $399 Wolf Toaster, which coincidentally is made in the U.S. This is the same brand that makes the famous Wolf Ranges.

https://wolfgourmet.com/store/countertop-appliances/four-sli...

Wow, I did a bunch of searching and this company did not come up. I don’t know how I missed this.

It’s pretty ugly considering the price.

I just learned about Dualit because of this thread, they make something very similar to the vision I have in my head, except it’s made in the UK instead of the US.

I was picturing basically recreating something like the Sunbeam T-20.

> recreating something like the Sunbeam T-20

I got a vintage Sunbeam toaster recently, and in the process I found this guy who restores vintage Sunbeam toasters for almost $300!

https://www.timstoasters.com/

That's not including the toaster itself, which generally runs somewhere around $100 on eBay.

It makes me wonder if it's a better business to restore old toasters (and even other kitchen gear) rather than to make new ones. I haven't used his services ($300 is quite a bit more than I'd like to spend), but it seems like he goes to great lengths to fix up these toasters, even ordering custom power cords from a wire supplier. I bet it would be easier to start off recreating some replacement parts rather than manufacturing a whole toaster.

> I got a vintage Sunbeam toaster recently, and in the process I found this guy who restores vintage Sunbeam toasters for almost $300!

This is great!

i am just going to drop this here:

How to design an actually good toaster with lessons from the 1940's

From Technology Connections:

https://youtu.be/bLk1cjZ4ll0

> Wow, I did a bunch of searching and this company did not come up. I don’t know how I missed this.

It happens.

> It’s pretty ugly considering the price.

Aesthetic is very subjective, people probably purchase the Wolf toaster because the red knobs match their Wolf stove. That said it is very modern and if you also made an art deco stove to match the toaster you’re imagining you may have found a new market.

> I just learned about Dualit because of this thread, they make something very similar to the vision I have in my head, except it’s made in the UK instead of the US.

Dualit is a great brand with a great product.

> I was picturing basically recreating something like the Sunbeam T-20.

To be fair the Dualit reminds me of a more modern Sunbeam.

Really if you have the time and the resources to manufacture a toaster, do it, expect a failure, and if it’s successful great, at the very least you’ll have learned something new.

Suggested Retail Price: $599!

I mean products like this are basically a grift on rich people and I guess I'm fine with that.

My toaster cost like $30 or something and it still works fine after 10 years. I didn't even research it, just grabbed a random one at a store.

Vitamix blenders are 8-10x the cost of a normal blender and have a cult like following. With the right branding home appliances can also double as a status symbol in American kitchens.

> Vitamix blenders are 8-10x the cost of a normal blender

"Normal" isn't a particularly useful label here, and Vitamix aren't 8-10x when you compare like-for-like (in terms of capacity and other features).

The Wirecutter recommendations[1] (which is a pretty decent way of seeing what the market is like) are:

Our Pick: Vitamix 5200, $397

Runner Up ("A more-affordable but less-durable blender"): Oster Versa Pro Series Blender, $280

Also Great: Cleanblend Blender, $165

Budget pick: KitchenAid K150 3 Speed Ice Crushing Blender, $100

This is the typical market dynamic. The high end (Vitamix) is a bit more than twice the mid-range option, and then there is a long tail going way way down.

I agree a $1300 blender (ie, 8 * $165) is a luxury play. But Vitamix seems more just a normal high-end quality play rather than luxury. Their most expensive blender is $729 list price[2] but comes with a bunch of extra features (wireless jug detection?!) to justify the cost. Luxury brands don't try to justify costs: the cost is the feature.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-blender/

[2] https://www.vitamix.com/us/en_us/shop/smart-system-blenders

There's also scope for improvements. For one I want my toaster to be crumb and grease free in 10 seconds.

> premium grade products.

Premium grade != Made in USA

Here's a $200+ toaster I was seriously considering buying at one point. It is not made in the USA, and most made-in-USA stuff sucks honestly

https://www.amazon.com/Mitsubishi-Electric-ST1-T-Toaster-ult...

Yeah it’s a pretty nice toaster.

Isn't that a griddle?

> Toaster which burns 1 sheet of ultimate

> Americans are known for their willingness to take business risk and fail then pick themselves up and try again. Makes life exciting and worth living.

Having the world's largest pool of investment capital and one of the most liberal bankruptcy systems in the world also helps. If there's anything Americans are more willing to do than risk losing their own money, it's to risk losing other people's money :)

> The is a reason why LVMH (Moët Hennessy Louis Vuitton) is one of the most successful and valuable companies in the world.

It very much isn't because they sell premium quality products. They sell luxury products. Luxury branding has very little to do with product quality or performance. Also, the US doesn't have a competitive advantage in manufacturing home appliances. They actually have a competitive disadvantage, as the most capable manufacturing capacity for these products doesn't exist in the US anymore.

> It very much isn't because they sell premium quality products. They sell luxury products. Luxury branding has very little to do with product quality or performance.

This!! 100% true.

For luxury products the cost is the feature.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com