New Particle Discovered at CERN | Hacker News Reader

New Particle Discovered at CERN

mediadesk.uzh.ch

127 pointsDiabloD333 comments

I know that the world is essentially flat and that we shouldn't be so jingoistic anymore, but does it trouble anyone besides me that CERN is under the Swiss Alps near Geneva instead of under the scorching sun in the New Mexico desert? Shouldn't the "greatest Superpower in World History" be the one crashing atoms together like NASCAR autos and seeing all the mess that comes out of it? Now that I think about it, maybe if we market it that way...

I fear that the only advocate we have left for a strong scientific America is Neil deGrasse Tyson.

"The sun never sets on CERN"

Engineers at Fermilab in Batavia, IL performs CERN operations by day, in evening hours for the Swiss.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_Super_Collider

The United States planned one with a collision energy almost three times that of CERN.

...By 1993, the cost projection exceeded $12 billion. Congress officially canceled the project October 21, 1993 after $2 billion had been spent.

The SSC cost was due largely to the massive civil engineering project of digging a huge tunnel underground. The LHC in contrast took over the pre-existing engineering infrastructure and 27 km long underground cavern of the Large Electron-Positron Collider, and used innovative magnet designs to bend the higher energy particles into the available tunnel.

The LHC eventually cost the equivalent of about 5 billion US dollars to build.

http://costofwar.com/en/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program

Basically, if it is health care, education, science, etc., our "representatives" are penny pinchers and will debate the issue until the end of days. Everything else gets signed in a day or the dead of night.

As a (ex-)physicist, I don't particularly care where the experiments are taking place: cool science is being done, and the people at CERN are a pretty international bunch. They're also scattered around the world: I know a few people at the University of Michigan involved in the project, albeit mostly on the data analysis side of things.

As an American... well, we've demonstrated that we don't plan to do any big particle physics locally anytime soon.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-09-30/news/ct-met-fe...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_Super_Collider

sigh

I think it is better to think of the LHC as a global scientific instrument that just happens to be located in Switzerland. I think it's culturally beneficial for science to be freed from nationalist impulses and become a joint enterprise of the world. As we learn more about the universe, the scale and expense of the leading edge of science will increase to the point that only global participation can afford (if we're not there already).

We're doing cutting-edge research into fusion just down the road from my house. We've got a variety of particle accelerators, gravity sensors spread across the country, the best supercomputing research in the world, etc. People come from around the world to do research in the US. I don't think it's a bad thing that important research is also happening in Europe, in fact I think it's great because it should help promote a two-way flow of ideas. Plus, it means you and I didn't have to pay for it!

Being Swiss myself, I can for the life of me not figure out why you should be troubled by this fact. Do you feel threatened by us? I understand you're worried about the state of science and education in the U.S., but on the other hand you cannot honestly assume that 100% of scientific and technologic breakthroughs are performed on 6.1%[1] of the world's land mass?

I've been living in the U.S. for 3 months now, and the "American exceptionalism" assumption sometimes gets on my nerves..

[1] http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=U.S.+land+area+%2F+worl...

Not as much threatened as forlorn about our seeming decline in status as a scientific hub for the world. I find solace somewhat in the breakthroughs we've discovered and developed over the years, but must sadly concede that, hey, people are doing sexy science-y stuff all over the place.

We can't even come together for universal healthcare coverage, so maybe we don't deserve to be the lead dog of the sled.

Very nationalistic thinking.

Not very nationalistic from an Asian perspective.

The work at CERN is for Science, not Religion (or misplaced Patriotism if you prefer.)

You monster.

The work at CERN is differentiated when it is performed by westerners or by people from the eastern side:

"The cost [...] has been evaluated, taking into account realistic labor prices in different countries. The total cost is X (with a western equivalent value of Y)" [where Y>X]

source: LHCb calorimeters : Technical Design Report

ISBN: 9290831693 http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/494264

Western discrimination/patriotism is firmly in place.

USA is only the "greatest Superpower in World History" if you look at the power of its army.

But that is the kind of minds that rule the country.

Also if you look at its economy which is arguably an even more important characteristic.

Why does that trouble you? Do you refuse to read books because the script isn't invented in the US? Do not US universities teach their CS students about Turing machines, because they were invented by a British guy?

Get of your nationalistic horse and be happy that not only americans, but the entire world can do science. Someday the most advanced research center in the world may be in Africa, someday it may be in Russia, some day in China.

Besides the Swiss are pretty close to neutral -- I can't even remember if they are members of the UN -- which means that the location is safe, politically.

As the world's greatest superpower shouldn't we watch formula 1 and not NASCAR? Shouldn't was try to win international sporting competitions instead of calling national championships "world" championships?

We don't like competing on level playing fields.

>The baryon known as Xi_b^*

A word on your PR, physics.

Except that that isn't what it's called. That's the TeX way of describing it. Funny that their entire press release assumes you are looking through a TeX or LaTeX lens :-)

It should actually look like this:

http://equationater.com/84e00ccd9705dca5bc0917a33e162502.png

If you look at the full list of baryons on Wikipedia you'll see that it's one of many in this format: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_baryons This is a Xi.

The particle Xi_b^ comprises one “up”, one “strange” and one “bottom” quark (usb)*

So, it's an up strange bottom (usb) baryon.

Interesting. Thank you for clarifying that.

two questions--

how does that differ from \Xi_b^0, which also seems to be a usb baryon?

is there a standard way to pronounce those symbols (e.g. "xi star sub-b")?

Close, it's just like "zeye star bee". (edited)

I believe the difference is in the overall angular momentum. (You can think that the quarks are somehow arranged differently inside the particle.)

You can look at the particle data group's entries[1,2] for \Xi_b^0, which has J=1/2 and for \Xi_b^*, which has J=3/2.

[1]http://pdglive.lbl.gov/Rsummary.brl?nodein=S060&exp=Y...

[2]http://pdglive.lbl.gov/Rsummary.brl?nodein=S062&sub=&...

-edit-

Also, found a line on wikipedia discussing the notation of baryons that confirms this:

>Baryons in total angular momentum J = 3⁄2 configuration that have the same symbols as their J = 1⁄2 counterparts are denoted by an asterisk.

I just found this line in the article: The new discovery means that two of the three baryons predicted in the usb composition by theory have now been observed. It's not much to go on, but apparently there should be 3 usb baryons.

> Funny that their entire press release assumes you are looking through a TeX or LaTeX lens :-)

I'm glad! This is a great way to filter out news sources that I actually want to read, rather than sensational 'ZOMG - Neutrinos are faster than light!!! Einstein was wrong!!!' drivel that was all over the place a few months back.

I mean, seriously - can you imagine someone like Fox News publishing news articles with embedded TeX?

> Funny that their entire press release assumes you are looking through a TeX or LaTeX lens :-)

Interestingly, I didn't even notice until it was pointed out here. I guess that the LaTeX glasses are pretty strong :)

Maybe it would have stood out if surrounded by $$...

Not really a new particle as much as a resonance mode. No big deal...

i m curious, if the notion of particle will fade away and there will be a quasi-continuous resonance modes of waves....

Alright, my area is not physics, but one thing annoys me: does it still make sense to have particles as an abstraction? I mean, in the same sense that in math, at some point, you give up caring about discrete values and work with continuities instead.

In physics, a discovery claim needs five-sigma level of certainty in the measurement of mass in this case. I fail to see the mass of the particle named. Am I missing something from the PR? (Edward Bernays)

I am still waiting for them to discover the Bozon, the carrier of the Bozo force.

The Bozon is difficult to find because political parties are hoarding them.

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