Hacker News Reader

Comment by crazygringo | Hacker News Reader

Precise geolocation is used to pick the nearest McDonald's. You need precise in urban areas where there might be multiple locations only a few blocks away.

I don't know why you would have given it always-on (background) location permission. iPhones don't ever grant that by default, you always have to opt in. Nor does the app require it -- when it asks the first time you run the app, just pick "only while using the app". Or turn it off in Location settings if you picked the wrong setting initially.

View on HN

Even if you choose "only while using the app", the app can work around that if it's registered as a navigation app. I've seen the "[app] is actively using your location" message in the statusbar when using both the uber and mcdonalds app, despite only granting the "only while using the app" permission. Also the mcdonalds app requires precise location access to see any of the offers/promos.

> I've seen the "[app] is actively using your location" message in the statusbar

Sure, but that's intentional and incredibly obvious in the status bar. It tracks your location between when you place an order and when you're close to the restaurant so that you can confirm for them to start the order.

It's not like it keeps tracking you for hours or days afterwards or anything. Same as Uber -- it turns off after your ride is done. The status bar message disappears.

Point is, the app doesn't seem designed to harvest location data. If you pick up an order at the restaurant, they know you were there anyways. Your phone isn't telling them something they don't already know.

Having location data on can potentially implicate you in a crime.

It can also be used as an alibi, so if you go kill your ex wife, make sure you have location tracking turned on, and give your phone to someone else to be in another place.

Not a lawyer, but my estimate is that this would stand up in approximately zero courts worldwide

It has been presented as evidence (e.g., https://corrcronin.com/2023/05/never-off-the-grid-how-to-fin...)

All of those examples are of LE claiming that somebody was at a given location, not a defendant using it to prove they were somewhere else.

What's the difference? One is somewhat difficult to fake, the other is laughably easy.

Not saying it hasn't been attempted somewhere, I'm saying it would be a very weak prosecutor who couldn't cast doubt on it as a piece of "proof"

The proof obligation is (correctly) vastly higher in one direction than the other in a US criminal trial.

A defendant using it to create reasonable doubt is a win for the defense. A prosecutor who is only able to cast doubt on it is not a win for the prosecution.

It's evidence. What it means is up to interpretation, but I doubt it would be blocked entirely. It would be up to the prosecutor to challenge the assumption that you and your phone are in the same place, or that there was some other flaw in the data.

It does actually. The McDonalds app "accidentally" forgets to check when you've picked up your order and keeps tracking you until you go into the app, then it'll check and realize you picked it up and stop tracking you.

Sounds like a bug? It doesn't do that on my phone.

Especially since the blue status bar is so obvious. Nobody wants that sticking around on their screen.

When using that workaround the Dynamic Island will show that the app is using navigation. It's a prominent UI indicator impossible to miss. Much more obvious than the small location icon next to the clock.

For such apps I prefer to manually terminate them when not using, instead of merely moving them to the background.

Can you download the app from their parking lot, on their WiFi, do your thing, and uninstall it?

Leaving a food app installed seems unnecessary in the first place.

Yeah you could do that, but uninstalling and reinstalling every time seems unnecessary imo.

This was my issue. It took too long.

"Too long"? Are we not talking about, like, 60 seconds? Admittedly I don't use these things, but is there some major inconvenience I'm missing?

The app is 255 MB. If you’re on a 2 GB plan, that’s an 1/8th if your data for the month just to save a few bucks.

This is in addition to when you just want to eat the damn thing once you get it.

I didn't realize 2GB plans were still common. I'm paying $15 a month for 5 (U.S., in New England), and figured people who paid real money for their plans had enough that one app wouldn't matter.

But then McDonald's also has free WiFi, so does it matter?

It's because if you order pickup, they don't actually start making it until you get there.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com