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Comment by lgkk | Hacker News Reader

In a perfect world I think that people wouldn’t be resorting to OF or porn.

Imo people today do that to make fast money and well… I don’t personally know why I should be forced to accept or approve that kind of way of money making. I don’t respect drug dealers, corrupt businessmen, nor YouTube scammers. I also don’t respect people who perpetuate mental harms by producing porn and contributing to these issues. I do respect startup founders that solve actual problems, teachers who help improve failing schools, or scientists who don’t accept corporate funding to paint an inaccurate picture.

I value persistence, virtue, and meritocracy and no amount of social force will make me accept certain behaviors.

Just being honest with my opinion.

And people are free to disagree with my pov as well, and do whatever they want.

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If I told you that I had moral views about the legal and consensual stuff you get up to in your private life (whatever that may be), and I told you I thought it was reprehensible and that you should lose your job over it, would you perhaps think I was being overbearing and that I should mind my own business?

Eg, if you were a person of faith (I have no idea if you are), and I was a militant atheist (to be clear I'm agnostic), and I told you that I thought all religion was harmful and said something disrespectful like, if you believe in an imaginary friend who grants wishes you aren't qualified to be a doctor/engineer/etc (this is not a position I actually endorse or an appropriate way to talk about religion) - can you see how you might tell me to get lost?

Are you causing harm through your actions? That’s really the only metric I use, and it’s pretty simple. If my actions were increasing mental issues, leading to people getting sick via inaccuracies, or causing pension funds to be misallocated then sure. You should call me out on it.

Money isn’t the end all be all. Id say if someone can make porn and publish it they can surely do something else with that “creative” energy.

You said:

> I don’t personally know why I should be forced to accept or approve that kind of way of money making.

but if there's no harm, and porn is consensual, all is good - right?

> Id say if someone can make porn and publish it they can surely do something else with that “creative” energy.

why should they if it, by your metric, is doing no harm?

> You should call me out on it.

Well, I was using thought experiments to avoid calling you out, but if you want me to be forthright, I can do that. I don't want to get into an argument though, honestly I don't even want to get into a debate, so I'm gunnuh say my piece and you can take it or leave it. I just don't have the energy to get into a debate. (Not to say you aren't free to respond however you see fit, I just probably won't respond if you defend your position.)

I do think you are taking a position which is harmful. For more reasons than I can get into in an HN comment, but the highlights are, you're exaggerating the potential for harm; you're projecting flat narratives in your head onto real people and using that to justify removing their bodily autonomy (eg, not everyone makes porn because they're desperate - some people are exhibitionists [no, I don't understand why either], some people enjoy that kind of work, some people do it for reasons neither of us have imagined); generally you're trying to impose your moral standards on to others.

I agree! They could be making movies like Winnie the Pooh, Blood and Honey or maybe the Saw movies. Lots of creativity there and no law against it. Probably wouldn't have been fired. But people-a husband and wife pleasuring each other? Intolerable! And while we are at it, you know that statue of David? Put some pants on it!

> But people-a husband and wife pleasuring each other? Intolerable!

Exactly this. There are plenty of couples out there making videos of themselves having sex, and it's not my place (or anyone else's) to tell them they can't.

> Are you causing harm through your actions?

1. I would argue the bar should be "more harm then good", otherwise most of human activity would be banned.

2. Since you've given no compelling evidence that that is the case, you don't have much of an argument for preventing it.

The “frustrating” part is that a corporation only feels “harm” via financial impact and not the kind of harm we really speak of when discussing the actions of humans.

This is why “my own time” should be my own time. If I cause harm to an individual, there are already laws to deal with that.

If I have yet to cause financial harm to a corporation and they cannot articulate how my actions during time in which they do not pay me they should not be allowed to even consider firing me.

Things, imho, will improve when the default to seeing a video/post is to think “that’s AI, not Jim.”

Can’t prove it’s me? Can’t fire me.

I don't share your opinion.

But besides that, if you think about it. Firing people for doing porn as a side job is effectively forcing people into doing porn as a full time job. OnlyFans doesn't fire people for having a regular day job, so guess what remains as a revenue source.

I'm curious: "no amount of social force will make me accept certain behaviors." Why is "accept" the verb used in this statement? Why not "tolerate" or "allow" or "grudgingly ignore"?

To state my perspective by way of personal anecdote: I find it shitty that I have neighbors who like to run their errands with pistols strapped to their waists like they want to be Wyatt Earp when they grow up, but my acceptance or non-acceptance of the situation is irrelevant. I don't feel like I'm forced to accept the situation just because I have no right or power to change it by myself. As an aside: I bet if I tried to go get those neighbors of mine fired for their open-carry, I would end up shot.

I don't approve of many things that other people do, but I do accept the vast majority. I could go around decrying the mental harms caused to some by porn just as I could go around decrying the mental harms caused to some by religion. In the end, however, I find it easier to instead live and let live. I would hope you choose to the do the same instead of bothering others about their private lives.

Let's say you collect stamps. I think it's a stupid and morally irresponsible way of using your free time (you should be socializing or doing sports or learning something new). Just being honest with my opinion.

This is all ok. The problem is when we start firing people or shunning them for stuff we don't like.

Let's take an example that's not a softball. What if your daughter's male elementary school teacher had a porn site and everyone in the class knew about it? How about your son's female middle school teacher? Apply to your therapist, or masseuse or whatever.

Do you not see a conflict of interest? How much of a distraction would that be? That's not so black and white to me.

This falls into the category of "effects their ability to perform their work" and (to some extent) "more harm than good" (because it impacts their ability to to do their work. And, in that case, it may be reasonable to no longer employ them for that role. I expect it's similar to sportsball players that have ethical clauses in their contracts; the point of their job is to bring in money for the team and, if people despise them for their actions, they may not be able to do that.

If I chose not to hang around someone who continually brings their politics or their religion into whatever is going on, am I shunning them?

Let's say I read paleontology for fun. Can I avoid Young Earth Creationists socially, or am I shunning them?

That's a very strange question.

Not hanging out with someone is obviously fine, and it's your choice.

Firing or publicly shunning someone is a totally different matter.

"Not hanging out with someone" is the very definition of shunning, public or otherwise.

Why is firing a different matter? If I'm an employer in an at will state, I most certainly can fire someone who's not a member of a protected group, like atheists, say.

Doing something "public or otherwise" is obviously different, hence the "or". I don't think I have to explain anything here, or do I?

And firing is obviously different from "avoiding socially" because you don't pay people to hang out with you.

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