Pinker was right, I was wrong
statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu
statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu
In the OP, Gelman announces he has changed his mind and now agrees with Pinker that university administrators should "shut up and do their job" (Pinker's words), providing the most impartial forum possible for professors and students to argue these issues, i.e., adopt the "Kalven Principles" (https://president.uchicago.edu/from-the-president/announceme...).
---
EDIT: Added quotes around "shut up and do their job" to make it clear that those are Pinker's words, not mine.
No, that's not what he said. This is what he said:
"The problem is not with academic leaders “having a foreign policy” in the sense of expressing opinions and seeking to achieve political change; it’s with expectations or demands such as Emanuel’s that academic leaders should have a foreign policy, that it’s part of the job, that it’s a matter of leadership."
In other words, condemning atrocities is fine, but it's optional, not a required part of the job.
---
EDIT: The title of the article is clearly tongue-in-cheek. If you don't realize that, and you take the title 100% literally, you've missed something crucial. It should be clear when the author begins by talking about "wearing earth tones, driving Priuses", which he still thinks is an absurd stereotype by Pinker.
Also: "So here’s where I agree with Pinker. Or, to be more precise [emphasis mine], where I agree with his implicit point [emphasis mine]."
Further quotes to show what the author is really talking about, which is the demand that university leaders make statements:
"The trouble is, there are so many issues out there? How much “leading” does he demand that university leaders do?"
"But then there’s the question of where to stop, which atrocities to condemn. You wouldn’t want a university president to become the equivalent of an outrage-of-the-week blogger."
"Again, my problem is not with university leaders, or business leaders, or church leaders, etc., expressing views, but rather with the idea that this is what they are supposed [emphasis mine] to do."
The coup de grâce: the author says in the P.P.S. that he was still right on this one, this one being a link to an article titled, "Steven Pinker is a psychologist who writes on politics."
See Steven Pinker's twitter post (linked to by Gelman) and Michael Baily's essay (linked to by Pinker):
https://twitter.com/sapinker/status/1716098101830676854
https://hxstem.substack.com/p/kalvenizing-northwestern-unive...
I added quotes around "shut up and do their job" in the root comment to make it clear that those are Pinker's words, not mine.
"The problem is ... with expectations that it’s part of the job ... that academic leaders should have a 'foreign policy'"
> administrators should shut up and do their job
I read that with an implied "while performing duties of said job", not "at all times no matter what". In other words "Do not implement or promote said foreign policy on the job" as that (in their opinion) is not part of their job, but a personal matter to be tended to on personal time.
Stripped of context I can see why someone would take issue with that quote as the implication is dependent on that context, but in context he's clearly talking about performing their duties on the job. Afterall, the implication you're operating off of is that this person is expected to be on the job 24/7 and/or as such should never ever do anything ever that's not relevant to the job or in line with company policies, which is frankly absurd. It's why context is important and while a single line/quote can anchor an entire discussion or position, it rarely can fully embody or express it.
TL;DR: Needs context.
Nobody likes busybodies who calls the cops for the most mundane of neighbourhood infractions. But what happens when a bunch of people with different values move in? Will the people who just mind their business say anything? Do anything?
Agree with both Gelman and Pinker here, around expectations of people having “an opinion”. But what’s missing from Gelman’s critique of the other fellow, is that you do also need leaders to enforce some norms. There should be some values. And if you can’t agree to what those values are, there definitely is a problem.
Times have changed, there’s too much lazy tolerance now, and people do need to organize around some common values that isn’t just what is the progressive de jour.
I don't see how that's the case. The only way we could agree entirely on those common values is to be entirely homogenous as a group, and that is not the case and in my view, deeply undesirable. (I suppose another way we could agree entirely is to be entirely conformist, but that doesn't seem very attractive either).
> Times have changed, there’s too much lazy tolerance now, and people do need to organize around some common values that isn’t just what is the progressive de jour.
Well that comes across as "I want more of my values in society, not yours because they are wrong". If you gave some reasons for why yours are correct and mine aren't, I'd be interested.
Harvard is not "a university."
Harvard profits from the disproportionate amount of attention that it receives, and the power that it confers to its graduates. Sure, it should be responsible for its foreign policy.
How about the public university down the street from my house? Should it have a foreign policy? Yet our university will suffer from the political backlash against Harvard's shenanigans.
Like how does one person end up on one side of the debate, and then someone else on the polar opposite. They are both human. How did the process differ between the two.
There was a time when they had no opinion, and then there is a time when they are waving flags in the street and thinking about it all the time.
What are the critical moments? What are their contact points with news and propaganda?
Why don't journalists ask about this? Instead we hear each side explain their understanding of the situation in a subset of points that ChatGPT could basically have written.
What is more interesting is to ask people why they think other people have a different opinion.
The conflicts are not alike. In Gaza, there is no “good guys”. Everyone has civilian blood on their hands. Everyone is angry. And there are no easy answers that have any hope of achieving peace. Of course the foreign policy positions of our governments are different in each case.
I’m not sure why you expect your comment to be convincing. The facts on the ground are obviously different. I sincerely believe those differences matter. Reducing my argument to a straw man only leaves me suspecting you don’t understand my point.
In any case, if you take this as axiomatic:
> We should divest any occupier state
Do you also believe that non-indigenous people are “occupying” the USA, Canada, Australia, India, South Africa and so on? Should we all somehow return “home”? If you see Russia and Israel as the same situation, is it not also the same situation in many other countries? Where do you suggest we draw the line?
And where, exactly, do you propose the Israelis should go this time?
Israel does have a right to defend itself. It also has an obligation to be humane, and if it wants to continue existing without internal conflict with its neighbours, perhaps this is not quite the best way to do it.
"“Colleagues who have managed to make it to the north in recent days describe scenes of utter horror: Corpses left lying in the road. People with evident signs of starvation stopping trucks in search of anything they can get to survive,” Martin Griffiths, UN Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator, told members of the UN Security Council on Friday. " - https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/12/middleeast/gaza-corpses-o...
Does any of that matter to you?
Edit: @josephg
"The Health Ministry in Hamas-run Gaza said Saturday that 135 Palestinians were killed in the last 24 hours, bringing the overall toll of the war to 23,843. The count does not differentiate between combatants and civilians, but the ministry has said about two-thirds of the dead are women and children." - https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-aud-nw-israel...
"For years, the Qatari government had been sending millions of dollars a month into the Gaza Strip — money that helped prop up the Hamas government there. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel not only tolerated those payments, he had encouraged them... Allowing the payments — billions of dollars over roughly a decade — was a gamble by Mr. Netanyahu that a steady flow of money would maintain peace in Gaza, the eventual launching point of the Oct. 7 attacks, and keep Hamas focused on governing, not fighting." - https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-q...
(edit 2: snotty comments removed)
This is a weird claim. How are the bombs selectively targeting women? Are the bombs sexist?
> And possibly this came about because the Israeli government allowed money to Hamas to split the Palestinian governance?
“Allowed money”? Gaza has been self governing for years. Do you want Israel to intervene in politics in Palestine or not? You can’t have it both ways - either they pull out and let Gaza self govern, or they meddle in political affairs and make sure money is spent in a way they like. What would you have them do?
I agree with your main points - the loss of civilian life seems like an avoidable tragedy. (As were the Israeli civilian deaths a few months ago). But the strange points you make at the start of your comment weaken the overall message.
Russia can just pull out of Ukraine and everyone will chill out. But Israel can’t ignore Hamas after the terrorist act in October. And if they pull out of their illegal settlements in response to a terrorist act, it will embolden the next strike against their civilians.
As far as I can tell, it’s an impossible situation for everyone. If you truly think there are simple answers in Gaza, how would you de-escalate the conflict at this point?
Much to my point about the Israel and Russia attacks being very comparable, Russia can of course point to such terrorist groups in Ukraine, even ones like Azov being given official status in the armed forces.
>But Israel can’t ignore Hamas after the terrorist act in October.
Speculation on both our parts, but I think a real Palestinian state in the pre-67 borders and right of return for refugees would effectively end large-scale terrorist attacks, much the same as Russia would be safe if they withdrew from Ukraine.
Unfortunately it would also tell Palestine that terrorism works. And next time they want Israel to take their needs seriously, murdering, kidnapping and raping some Israeli civilians is the right way to go about it.
From a long term strategic point of view, Israel can’t give ground as a result of the terrorist attacks or they encourage more such attacks to happen in the future.
As far as I know, the University of California never issued an official statement on the war in Ukraine. On our campus, the campus leadership issued their own condemnation about a week after the invasion started. I remember thinking that there must be something going on behind the scenes, as the university usually reacts faster.
On the other hand, the university officially condemned the Hamas terrorist attack on October 9, which was the first business day after the attack.
* US professors suspended, probed over Gaza war comments: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-professors-suspended-pro... * Steven Salaita: U. of I. destroyed my career: https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-steven-... * UM disciplines prof over Israel letter controversy: https://eu.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/10...
In the Salaita affair donors made it clear that donations would stop if they hired him. And the university complied. It would have been a nothingburger if his tweets were about Russia. Similarly, many US universities have divested from Russia, but all have consistently refused calls to divest from Israel.
I don't know what to make of it. I think it's great that people fight for what they believe in but at the same time, "inaction" is becoming more and more difficult.
He approaches the matter somewhat indirectly. These people are more direct:
Yes, the WW2 Holocaust happened. That doesn't entitle the current Jews living in Israel to "1 free holocaust" coupon.
I took "Never Again" to actually be just that. But in reality it's "Never again to us, and anybody who denounces us is antisemitic!"
Additionally, Israel called dibs first, that is Palestinian/Arabs could have declared themselves a country as soon as the British mandate ended but chose not to. Instead Israel did first and was attacked by neighboring countries which caused the majority of the Palestinian diaspora.
The internationally accepted borders of Israel are based on the 1949 armistice. Israel did not "give" Gaza or the West Bank to Palestine, those are simply the borders. Israel started the 6-day war in 1967 that led to the present occupation.
That's a moral judgement and subjective to each individual.
You said "Israel started the 6-day war in 1967 that led to the present occupation."
Which I said was inaccurate due to the fact that Egypt shutdown the Strait of Tiran to Israel. Egypt started the war.