Could a moderator change the "Teams" in the title to lowercase (as it is in the article)? Capitalizing Teams misleadingly implies it's regarding Microsoft's chat platform.
We shouldn't assume a basic sentence capitalised word refers to a product.
If a reference to a product is intended, we should clarify that association some other way; i.e. MS Teams.
I do agree that editors should read their topics critically and add disambiguating text (if possible and permitted).
When I read the headline, I was not thinking of MS Teams. Because I only use MS Teams a few rare times a year. Mainly I use Zoom.
But even if OpenAI had an article that with the rules of headline capitalization of HN ended up reading “Dall-E adds Zoom Feature” I would have imagined that it was about being able to zoom into pictures. Not automatically assumed that it had anything to do with Zoom. Even though I use Zoom almost every day.
Quite the contrary, Microsoft earns free advertisement from this. The problem is for the people that misunderstand the heading, not for Microsoft
Ok, you would understand it correctly even the Zoom example. So?
Heading should be optimized for the most possible amount of people, there is a clear possibility that a lot of people misunderstand the title, so why not simply edit it? In that case neither you nor anyone else would understand something wrong
I think people are vastly over estimating Microsoft’s ownership over ‘Teams’. Even within a tech context.
Plus, everything we’ve seen from Microsoft in their partnership with OpenAI has been Co-Pilot. Which is why I use MS Teams daily and did not make the connection.
I showed the title to five colleagues and all of them assumed it referred to Teams the product. Not to mention the overwhelming majority of people in these threads.
I for one also thought it was Microsoft Teams in the heading.
If a heading misleads even a fraction of readership, for no apparent reason (what is the benefit of having a title in Title Case?), maybe it's better that the heading is changed, no?
What's happening is that lowercase "sentence case" titles have become more popular and normalized so repeated exposure to that style can cause a subconscious heuristic of "Capitalized letter signifies a Brand Name or Proper Noun". You can try to advise people not to assume that but it doesn't change the type of "sentence case" titles people are now repeatedly exposed to.
The New York Times still uses "Title Case" but a lot of other newspapers switched to lowercase sentence case. Washington Post switched in 2009. And Los Angeles Times, The Boston Globe, the Chicago Tribune, the San Francisco Chronicle, Philadelphia Inquirer, etc all followed.
Other popular websites with lowercase titles include Vox, ArsTechnica, TechCrunch, etc.
Unfortunately, I don’t think I’m the only one.
Claiming it is a title wouldn’t win the argument either. As it is not a rule that titles must have title casing. Both (title case vs first letter capital only) are valid typography of a title in English.
We shouldn’t but many of us do. As a title word, there’s ambiguity if it’s a proper noun or not given title styling. Given the context in this case (HN, OpenAI, ChatGPT) it was pretty difficult for my brain to not assume it was referring to Microsoft Teams so it baited me in, perhaps unintentionally. I’m not too upset about it because I knew that going in but none the less, a quick read of the title should make it obvious to call it “ChatGPT for Collaboration” or something of that nature.
Normally it would be ok to capitallize words to match what many other US publications use, but this capitalization introduces confusion. I can only speak for myself, but I made the assumption that this was an integration with MS Teams. This would have been avoided if the original title was kept.
"ChatGPT for Microsoft Teams", marketed under the name Copilot, has been a Microsoft Teams feature for a while. What new thing did you expect when you read this?
Title case was invented when there were much limited typographical options than now, to emphasize, well, titles. On a web page, there are so many better ways to do it, there is no reason to preserve the archaic convention.
To my eye it does not even look that nice...
Anything else is just wasting time.
Your reply is adding more confusion.
The "ChatGPT Team" is the title of the webpage from a user comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38942936
(The capitalized "Team" is part of a Branded Product Name.)
The "ChatGPT for teams" (lowercase 't') is the actual original title of the submitted webpage for the whole thread: https://openai.com/chatgpt/team
(The lowercase "teams" is a generic noun to describe the intended users.)
Sorry, I think you're the one adding confusion.
"ChatGPT for teams" is not the title of the submitted webpage. It's the heading of the article on that page, but the actual title, as shown in the tab strip and defined in the html header, is "ChatGPT Team":
view-source:https://openai.com/chatgpt/team
<meta property="og:title" content="ChatGPT Team">
Yes, I understand that but 99% in this thread talking about "title" is the article's headline(title) that has the word "for" in it "ChatGPT for teams" and not the HTML tags <title>ChatGPT Team</title> or <meta property="og:title">
In other words, people in this thread are not complaining about "ChatGPT Team" in the browser's tab title or confused by it. Instead, they're talking about the other title "ChatGPT for Teams" that was submitted and manually changed from lowercase 't' to uppercase 'T' and prominently visible at the top of this thread. That's the context of this meta discussion about confusing capitalization causing some readers to incorrectly assume the headline is about a new ChatGPT addon feature for MS Teams: (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-teams/group-chat-s...)
The singular "Team" in product name "ChatGPT Team" doesn't cause the same confusion because Microsoft doesn't have a branded product called "Team". That's why citing "<title>ChatGPT Team</title>" ... does not help clarify things and just adds more confusion to this thread.
>Hacker New's code uses the html title element (which in this case is actually a meta element) to automatically title submissions.
Are you sure? In the past, HN commenters have been annoyed that the HN software does not extract and parse the HTML <title> element automatically and defers too much to the titles that submitters manually type in which often leads to editorialization and/or confusion.
When a common word is a product / brand, how do you use that word in a title without bringing up associations with that product / brand?
Isn't the guidelines to submit the title as-is, no editorializing?
Local style guide says not to capitalise headlines, presumably.
Though you are right, the general rule here is not to change headlines and that should probably apply to style as well as wording. Looking at other posts on the main list there seems to be a mix as the original styles (sentence cap, all words capitalised, all but articles, …) have been kept.
Look no further than “Add Comment” at the top of this page.
Are you also going to complain if someone releases a platform called "The"?
j/k but finding it pretty funny these days that more and more people are switching to lowercase, assuming it started from this @sama tweet: https://twitter.com/sama/status/1735123080564167048
Plus, there's also the aesthetic, for a while we did it out of angst and to show we weren't all that wrapped up in the modern sensibilities. It seems like the situation as society moved forward may have only gotten worse for this.
If you're confused about something gen z does, it's either:
1) they're teenagers and grew up with phones, get with the times old man
2) a large corporation that didn't have a monolopy on communication (maybe basically everything else too) when you grew up now does and its an artifact of being forced to grow in that world
3) global warming is scary as shit, no one in power seems to give a shit, economies are crumbling, we're temporarily losing the worldwide battle for continued democracy, why wont they stop the war, school shootings, nuclear destruction isn't too close but doesn't look like it's getting farther away, etc etc etc. Basically, "have you seen the world? Why are you even trying, let alone the teenagers today?" type thing.
Again, my observation here is not that "TVs should stay grayscale" but that this lowercase movement is now being used to "fight the AI generated content" which I find pretty funny because it makes no sense. You can tell ChatGPT to write in lowercase.
It especially got traction after @sama's tweet that had no intention to associate it with non-GPT content, but just weirdly flexed that he types in lowercase.
[0] https://albumartexchange.com/coverart/gallery/ra/radiohead_t...
On HN, copy/paste is usually a safe bet (with a few exceptions): https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
If you mean in general, Wikipedia sums it up pretty well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_case
Also note that HN automatically applies the capitalization rules to submitted headlines. So you don’t really need to do any changes to the capitalization yourself when you submit.
And for understanding how the rules work, I agree that Wikipedia article is good.
I'm with the parent comment on this one: for this particular headline it makes sense to lowercase "teams", since the HN audience will tend to correlate the uppercase version with the incorrect meaning of the headline.