Comment by joejohnson | Hacker News Reader

Comment by joejohnson | Hacker News Reader

Good, I'm glad people walked out of Van Horn's talk. That's the appropriate response to this sort of immature bullshit. This may sound extreme, but if you're surrounded by douche bags who make misogynistic jokes and weave rude and immature anecdotes into a work-related presentation, then these "brogrammers" must believe that this behavior is acceptable. And if you witness this, and laugh along (or even just ignore it), you are tacitly agreeing that this culture is acceptable. Do you want to work in an environment that allows this?

I am man, and this sort of culture makes me very uncomfortable and angry. I imagine it's even more aggravating and discomforting to women in these situations.

Simply refraining from laughing at a distasteful joke or turning a blind eye to vulgarities is a cop-out. We are all apart of the culture; if you're not calling this shit out, you might as well be laughing along.

If you see these behaviors, make an example to call that person out. Make it very clear that this behavior is not accepted. Failure to do so is implicit approval.

See, but the problem is that women, particularly in startups, have to walk a fine line of not letting themselves be objectified and not being labeled a bitch. The article even mentions that there isn't really much of a robust HR policy at small start ups.

When women in these situations make it clear that some behavior is not acceptable, they'll inevitably be met by "Woah don't be so serious, it's just a joke! Lighten up!" And the more upset and determined that woman is to make it clear that something isn't acceptable, the more likely they are to be labeled a bitch.

Because I'd bet you that 90% of the bad behavior you see in that type of situation isn't blatant sexism; it's small "jokes" and "jabs" that all add up to a bad workplace environment for women. And it makes it that much harder to defend yourself when there isn't just one glaring offense that people can blatantly see.

I think making this behavior unacceptable would be helped a lot more if men in the workplace stood up against it. It's not so easy for a woman to do it alone.

I completely agree. I don't want to say that women need a man to stand up for themselves, but like you said, women have to walk a fine line. If everybody who sees this crap blatantly calls it out, it will wake it easier for anybody (man or woman) to stand up against this.

completely agree with you and anichan.

I think this extends towards a lot of issues. The "Whoa, don't be so serious, it's just a joke" card gets played time and time again to hide people's insensitivity to others.

I wonder if there would be any jokes left in a 100% PC world.

Not sure but it is a fine line to walk on and it's not easy to distinguish where that line is drawn. Most of the things that are considered racist here in Canada seem mild in Asia. Some things in Asia considered racist aren't as bad here. It's difficult since everyone's sensitivity levels are different from one another. Having some sense of who our audience is will help.

I don't know many jokes. What I meant is, I wonder if jokes are usually based on going against some sensitivity.

There will still be puns... but probably not much else.

I think if you even go to a presentation called "Adding Value as a Non-Technical No Talent Ass-Clown." you've got yourself to blame when it turns out to be an ass-clown speaking out off his ass.

I can see that in retrospect, but if you don't know anything about the person ahead of time, it's possible that a talk with that title could turn out to be a serious talk that just starts from a self-deprecating hook. It's a clear Office Space reference I think, so I would've taken it to be a non-technical management type person admitting there's a large scope for Office-Space-style failure in their role, and then segueing into how they managed to avoid that and actually add value.

While I agree with your statements, there's something funny about using the term "douche bag" to champion the cause of females in the tech world...

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