Comment by hutzlibu | Hacker News Reader

Comment by hutzlibu | Hacker News Reader

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"At 18 you were able to get a driver's license and start drinking stronger drinks"

You must have lived in a different german reality then.

For us it was always easy to get someone else to buy your booze, if it was not already given to you somehow by the older guys. Or if you looked slightly older(I was NEVER asked for ID while buying drinks). Many people in my age group developed a drinking habit - and big surprise, quite some of them turned into alcoholics later. Also no surprise, with so many adult role models being drinkers as well.

The general principle of gradually allowing more, might help a tiny little bit preventing early access for some people, but it absolutely did not help prevent alcohol abuse. There is just a general culture of alcohol abuse (Oktoberfest and co). So yeah, we had also fun, but I strongly reject the idea, that alcohol could help preventing smartphone addicts or is somehow better. Rather the contrary as teens still drink today and can just get addicted to both.

I learned to drink in Germany as a 16 year old exchange student and then came back to US and experienced drinking culture here.

You are absolutely correct that German teens have much easier access to hard liquor the American terns. I presume this is some combination of the culture and enforcement realities in Germany compared to the US.

However, I would also (anecdotally) say that the teen culture in Germany around drinking is healthier and less prone to binging than in America. That doesn't mean there aren't problems, but they seemed less frequent and more muted.

My personal hypothesis is that this is because that 16 year limit and the difference in culture meant that teens ate far more likely to drink with and around their family. This facilitates intergenerational knowledge transfer about responsible alcohol usage and reduces risks.

"However, I would also (anecdotally) say that the teen culture in Germany around drinking is healthier and less prone to binging than in America."

There are huge local differences. In my youth and hometown, it was definitely binge drinking - and we just followed tradition. But what I learned of other areas, was actually quite similar. Healthy alcohol consumption was rather the exception, but there is a trend towards it.

And I have not been to the US to directly compare, but I cannot really say that I experienced "intergenerational knowledge transfer about responsible alcohol usage" in germany. That is, my father does not drink, because my grandfather drank too much. Does this count? Otherwise I just know too many families with at least one alcoholic and some on the way. And teenage drinking is just something teens are expected to do and the parents just try to limit the extremes. But many would be actually worried if their children never drank, because it might mean, they are isolated oddballs.

In addition to local differences (I was in very northern Germany) I'm sure my perceptions were colored by being at a Gymnasium, but I did also interact with kids from other schools.

I'm not saying that alcoholism isn't an issue in Germany. However the data I've found says alcoholism is about twice as prevelant in the USA as in Germany. Healthiness of drinking behavior isn't all all or nothing thing but a spectrum.

Having a sober father may have meant that you missed out on more direct knowledge transfere from your parents. You still would have had some of that knowledge transfere indirectly via your peers

In the USA, due to the laws, underage drinking, especially in highschool, tends to be much more segregated in terms of age. Each generation of teenages has to learn how to drink while hiding it from their parents. In my experience this means that teenage drinkers in germany tend to be more aware of their level of inebriation and thus tend to not binge as hard. There is more of an expectation socially to keep your shit together while in the USA there's more of a tendency to celebrate and brag about losing control, especially among the young for whom it is more novel. It's also possible (indeed likely) that many of the Germans kids I knew started drinking before 16 and that accounts for some of the differences I observed.

"I'm sure my perceptions were colored by being at a Gymnasium, but I did also interact with kids from other schools."

I was at a gymnasium as well ... and we were drinking with the teachers on occasions.

"However the data I've found says alcoholism is about twice as prevelant in the USA as in Germany. Healthiness of drinking behavior isn't all all or nothing thing but a spectrum."

It is of course possible, that you have it even worse. But my point was that I cannot confirm, that we have a healthy drinking culture in germany. We do have a drinking culture and some of it may prevent some escapades, but all in all I do not think it is healthy as indeeds promotes regular drinking as something normal.

"It's also possible (indeed likely) that many of the Germans kids I knew started drinking before 16 and that accounts for some of the differences I observed."

Very likely. We started with beer with 12 ... and the first time totally drunk was with 14.

"tendency to celebrate and brag about losing control, especially among the young for whom it is more novel"

And this was (and still is) totally a thing as well.

Lol, I wasn't suggesting that drinking alcohol is good. I was merely saying that allowing a gradual on-ramp when kids still are living with their parents is less bad. Compare the German situation to the opposite extreme of the US where you aren't allowed to drink anything till you are 21 and living with other people your age. You could hardly design a worse approach of you tried.

In the US, most states have family exception rules where you can drink with parents

Plus, it's not like kids follow the drinking laws if they don't want to

I dunno, I never feel the need to pull out my phone when drunk?

If it weren’t so problematic for other reasons being drunk all the time might stop smartphone addiction.

Oh well, Heroin might even "work" better in that regard..

True, but there’s a supply issue.

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