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Comment by TriangleEdge | Hacker News Reader

I agree with the title, I don't think it matter how resilient you are if you have no friends and no money. The Veritasium YouTube channel debunked the fact that money doesn't make you happier (it does) and that there's a plateau (there isn't). I also learnt from Jordan Peterson that you only get positive emotion if you follow a goal. You can't follow a goal if you have no money.

Anecdote: being poor is the most soul crushing thing that has happened to me. In my early 20s, I would go dancing sometimes and someone would approach me saying "you should buy me a drink" and I remember saying no because I had like 50$ total. Note, I was not blessed with loving parents. I don't know for sure, but I am willing to bet that people with more money have more friends with higher quality and deeper bonds then people with less money. I do think this plateaus however.

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> In my early 20s, I would go dancing sometimes and someone would approach me saying "you should buy me a drink" and I remember saying no because I had like 50$ total.

You just avoided the worst type of people anyway.

That's copium. He declined a date because he couldn't afford it.

it really isn't. He declined buying a drink for someone who was asking them to buy them a drink, something I always do even though I can definitely afford it.

> I remember saying no because I had like 50$ total.

He specifically stated his reason for declining. I'm not sure why you turned the comment towards yourself...

The idea that it plateaus is a well studied phenomenon; most people don’t get significantly happier after 75k or so a year. I also think it’s very odd to suggest people with money (I’m imagining someone rich) have deeper bonds than poor people since my intuition would have led me to the opposite conclusion (poor people are more reliant on their communities). Your anecdote is really interesting cause, while being poor is absolutely soul crushing, dating is an area that shouldn’t need to be expensive, yet social expectations that men be the breadwinners (outdated, since everyone is forced to work now) lead many women to absolute dicks about men not having a bunch of money.

> yet social expectations that men be the breadwinners (outdated, since everyone is forced to work now)

Still plenty of stay-home moms who raise the kids and make the home. I don’t think your comment about that way of life being outdated is accurate, and I predict that because of automation the over-all need for labor will decline such that we will necessarily as a society go back to breadwinners and caretakers working together to build a household.

You may be right about the division of labor reverting (though i sort of doubt it) but i think its unlikely to have its original gender divide since our social norms have shifted so much.

This study suggests there isn't a 75k plateau: https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2016976118

Yeah you’re right. The study I was thinking of got debunked.

> most people don’t get significantly happier after 75k or so a year

I call hard bullshit. Without even considering luxury spending, just not having to think about money very often is incredibly nice, and $75k is nowhere near any kind of plateau on that.

At $75k you had damn well better still be tallying up how much money's going in your cart at the grocery store. Not having to do that for basic stuff anymore, not having to worry much about coupons or bargain-shopping and just being able to say "I need this, or at least it would be very nice to have" and get it, no worry, no saving, no waiting for a sale, is such a GIGANTIC load off one's mind.

Car breaks? Take it to the shop, any plausible bill won't trash your budget for the month, let alone the year. Water leak? Yeah you could fix the drywall... but if you really don't feel like it this time, or are busy, you can just have someone else do it and the bill won't sting that bad. Groceries? Barely even pay attention to the total. Need some particular clothes for some purpose? Just buy them, and decent ones that won't look like shit and do fit right, at that. Kid breaks their arm? The cost barely even crosses your mind (it'll suck, but you'll be fine).

It is SUCH a relief.

A relief doesn't make you happy though. It just makes you not stressed. IME there's totally a plateau where you realise more money just means more expensive toys with minimal increase in actual fulfilment or happiness.

Maybe in the hundreds of millions $ or so. Before that a lot of tangible differences to everyday life on increased wealth (if so desired).

If money makes you happy why do so many celebs die of drug overdoses? By your logic they should be constantly dancing in the streets. Instead we have morons like Trump.

If you can't infer from those peoples' behaviour money doesn't make you happy, I think you've got a long learning curve ahead of you.

Is the prevalence for suicide higher in the rich (or even celebrities)? Anecdata might not be a good guidance.

If I were to venture a guess, drug overdose prevalence is high in some disadvantaged cohorts, not among well off or rich.

What're suicide and OD rates like for non-famous trust fund kids? How often does a Rockefeller error none of us have ever heard of OD? (Maybe it's very high, I don't know)

Safety, improved-probability-of-continued-comfort, options, and freedom-of-action do great things for most people's happiness, and those are what money is.

Its probably in the hundreds of thousands range according to newer studies. Think practically about whether you can do different things with 10mil than 100mil and whether those things are likely to make you happy.

Any notable plateau is assuredly way over $75k.

Not being anywhere near as stressed, and spending at-most 5% as much time thinking and worrying about money as I did when we were struggling, sure frees up a lot of energy and time to pursue happiness, if not providing it directly (i.e. not even counting when I'm able to trade cash for things like free time to play with my kids or spend more quality time with my wife, let alone buying toys, which, hell, is also genuinely nice).

I'm certainly grateful every damn time we have some mid-tier emergency pop up and the part of my brain dedicated to money just goes "hm, that's a shame" and then shuts up, rather than screaming "OH FUCK OH FUCK OH FUCK" for a day or three. It'd be madness to suggest there's not a strong correlation between that relief and general happiness.

Again, it's the 'way over 75k' part. A few hundred k max (and that's assuming a family), and there's not much difference after that.

I think a true sense of purpose to life is likely to make someone far happier, and ironically money can't buy that. Same with most things really worth having.

I first heard the $75k number in the 90s when you could buy a house for twice that. I think that number is due for an update because of inflation.

> The idea that it plateaus is a well studied phenomenon; most people don’t get significantly happier after 75k or so a year.

Is that adjusted for COVID-era inflation? That number should be 20% higher, at least.

It was a 2010 study, but it turns out the study itself was pretty much entirely incorrect as well.

> The idea that it plateaus is a well studied phenomenon; most people don’t get significantly happier after 75k or so a year.

That claim is 100% bullshit and I'm surprised anybody on HN would ever believe it. Just consider housing prices alone!

Where was that study done? Bumfuck, Nowhere, where a 2,000 sq ft house is $50K and you can live like a king on $30/hr? Was it done in 1990 or something?

Go to ANY major city and $75K/year won't even buy you a modest condo, let alone a house. You'll struggle to even raise a family in an apartment on that.

I can certainly tell you that I'm much happier making $200K/year than when I was making $100K/year. $100K paid all the bills and still had decent disposable income. $200K means I can buy a $2,000 GPU and not feel like I need to budget for it. $200K means I can buy my $150,000 dream car. $200K means I can buy prime-quality ribeye on a whim and not care that it's $30/lb. It means flying first class to Italy when I go on vacation, rather than flying coach to somewhere in the USA.

I can't fathom how ANYBODY can think the plateau happens at $75K. Absolute and utter nonsense.

You did absolutely nothing to debunk the claim except say that you can't believe it's true relying purely on your anecdotal experiences.

I gave specifics, but try taking a broader interpretation.

I touched on the topic of housing. I think most families would be happier in a ~2000 sq ft house rather than a <1000 sq ft apartment[0]. Certainly you can accept that truth without needing a peer-reviewed study of people's housing preferences. You can't buy a 2000 sq ft house on $75K/year unless you're in the middle of nowhere.

[0] Note that I mean MOST, not ALL. There are some people that despise single-family homes and prefer the higher-density aparments/condos, but I think they're a minority.

Yeah I think the study I was drawing on has been debunked, so nevermind. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/money-happiness-study-daniel-ka...

Happiness may plateau, but life satisfaction does not. And there has been subsequent research that casts doubt on the idea that happiness plateaus. Happiness has a large endogenous component i.e. it is the nature of the individual to be more or less happy on average.

I would argue that life satisfaction is much more important than happiness generally regardless.

Thank you for reminding us of that. Well said comment. I hope you're doing better now.

Financial reasons or not, it is an entirely valid choice to decline someone's request for a drink.

It's a valid choice, but so is theirs to not continue to interact with you.

Right, but as soperj said, the people you miss out on are the people who will dump you because you won't spend money on them. Missing out on them is likely to be a net win.

That's the difference between a life-long friendship and a business transaction.

It's still soul crushing. It's internalized in a whole different way.

When you have two, you have two, when you have one, you have none, what is it? Options.

When you don't have a dime you don't choose not to spend money, your brain never gets there, it's just a "no" and the "no" is because you are poor.

I’m very much aware. I grew up in a poor family and was lucky to break out of the cycle in my 20s.

That said, a club typically has people wanting free drinks and people not wanting to reciprocate. This environment is setting oneself up to be taken advantage of.

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