US unemployment has been under 4% for the longest streak since the Vietnam War
npr.org
npr.org
It’s no surprise unemployment has been low since then. Coincidence? You can decide.
I’m more curious what the ratio is between the median monthly “necessary” expenditure is, adjusted for locale to median salary. My hypothesis is that it’s drastically going up - that is, the median person working the median job requires an increasing high percentage of their salary to afford the “median lifestyle”. And in some cases this could be over 100%, meaning the median lifestyle is sustainable only through debt or other compromises like roommates, below median quality of life etc.
People have tried to get around this with brutal commutes, but we are seeing the limits of that as living far away no longer yields much savings but still results in a long commute.
Nevertheless, BLS does have a half decent measure.
https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2020/number-of-people-employed-...
Edit: up to date graph
In theory there is quite a bit of subtlety in the data collected. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm (Must say, I have no idea where gig work fits. There is some easy to find data: https://www.statista.com/statistics/918285/gig-economy-numbe... )
Someone working gig jobs (even multiple) and satisfied with hours worked/pay and benefits would just count as employed.
> We find that the number of workers in the gig economy grew between 8.8 and 14.4 percent from 2002 to 2014. For comparison, overall employment increased by 7.2 percent over the same period. Independent contractors constitute a significant portion of gig workers, and grew by 2.1 million workers from 2010 to 2014, accounting for 28.8 percent of all jobs added during the recovery. The online gig economy has experienced significant growth as well. Faster growth in taxis and boarding rooms since the arrival of companies like Uber, Lyft, and Airbnb indicates that online gig jobs are transforming the labor force. In particular, the data suggest that the ride sharing industry has helped bring in an additional $519 million in economic activity from 2009 to 2013, and created 22,000 jobs in the sector.
(2015): https://www.americanactionforum.org/research/independent-con...
This study also appears to use 1099 filings to gauge growth (2015 also): https://www.mercatus.org/research/policy-briefs/evaluating-g...
Here’s a more recent study that gives a balanced take and uses BLS data (2018)
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/independent-workers-and-t...
I’m unqualified to endorse any of these studies, I just figured that I’d share them. Trying to parse the formal distinctions between “gig workers”, independent contractors, and other “nonstandard workers” is a lot of work.
If you want to learn how many people are out of work, it's significantly more difficult and estimates tend to vary wildly depending on who's doing the math.
No, it is not. BLS provides official definitions of their terms here: https://dol.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2021/03/overview-o...
GenX had cushy youths and young adult lives, the “start a family” time, the opportunity to afford a house or 3 by now.
GenX is the cohort leading the decline in allegiance to church and American civic life pageantry. The original “eh capitalism is just old guys selling high minded memes about human future just like religion” generation. The let’s forget “stuff” for experience.
They did not have the same pressure to sell widgets Boomers raised by a Silent Generation of post world war shellshocked Cold War paranoids huffing leaded gas fumes.
The only way I see them “shining” is by laying low like they do and let the next generation get started living a life decoupled from the olds demands we serve their vacuous decrees.
Actually, perhaps not joking. Wouldn’t people with money retiring cause there to be a growing wealth source in search of a sink? Do retiring people hoard savings as much? Why would they?
Therefore, if the demand for goods/services doesn't really drop (aka, that retirement money getting spent), but productivity does, it would point to inflation.
I’m so confident, go to CNN or MSNBC right now. I bet you can’t find one. NPR does this a lot too to be fair.
I’m not trying to refute you. I understand why a publication would prefer not to link to other sites (and I commend MSNBC or choosing to do so according to my observations).
I’m more so intrigued by NPR not linking to anything, anywhere. Especially not a source. The numbers come directly from “the Labor Department” and the rest of the article is sentiment.
I wanted to facetiously parrot Elon Musk’s “NPR is state-run media” claims, but if the attempt at humor were to fall flat I’d hate for the more serious observation to not be considered.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/06/business/taylor-swift-new-yor...
Second one as well:
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/06/weather/winter-storms-snow-no...
First one on MSNBC, too:
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/ahead-se...
Love your confidence though!
> Part time jobs UP 762,000, full time jobs DOWN 1.5 million in December
if the economy was good we wouldn't have people doing early 401K withdrawals at record rates, record car repo rates, and record credit card debt. I'm just tired of the apologists who apparently live in a bubble or are outright lying for other reasons
https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/08/economy/401k-hardship-withdra...
https://www.gao.gov/blog/american-credit-card-debt-hits-new-...
https://www.pymnts.com/loans/2023/auto-loan-delinquency-rate...
In the long term, everyone pays market rate.
The luck is in being alive this long. Doesn’t say anything about their fitness to steer society via socialized memes there’s a communal upside to capitalism. Sounds pretty socialist.
“It’s good your agency is expropriated and your value deflated for the cause!”
In the post war years the above conditions held for decades leading to relatively steady home ownership rates and ages of first home ownership. However due to the rapidly rising cost of housing since the late 80s home ownership is rapidly changing.
Millennials have famously deferred home ownership, while gen z is starting to believe its is simply impossible to acquire. 22%[1] of all housing sales now go to private equity firms.
Unlike the stats collection used by the Fed of asking private home owners what they would rent their house for - rental rates are now often the subject of collusion through pricing algorithms[2]. Finally, individuals rarely own a single house forever - this would reduce economic mobility and be problematic in and of itself. When a home owner purchases a new home, they are subject to market pricing.
1. https://www.dwell.com/amp/article/ban-private-equity-single-...
2. https://www.businessinsider.com/real-estate-apartment-rent-p...
I'm tired of the crowd that for whatever reason needs to downplay and attack any positive fact or stat about the US.
From your own sources:
> overall employee contributions continued to hold steady for the first half of the year, and a greater share of participants upped their contribution rate than decreased it.
> “The data from our report tells two stories — one of balance growth, optimism from younger employees and maintaining contributions, contrasted with a trend of increased plan withdrawals,”
Hiring people with easy cheap money is not complicated. You don't need to spend your profits on people. Push profits into real estate/stocks/bonds etc. Inflate prices of all them then use them as collateral to take on more cheap debt and keep your plebs employed running on mindless hamster wheels.
Who should be included? College students? Stay at home moms? People who retired early?
This is not an easy thing to calculate, and will always include or exclude some group(s) that could be working.
U6 is 7%[0] for the month of December 2023.
For example, I haven't had a job for almost 6 months but I've put 'self-employed' on LinkedIn and have been working on my startup during this time (and already have a fully working product which is easier to use, more scalable and more effective than the competition) but I don't think I'm going to be able to find users in the current environment due to existing media/tech monopoly and insurmountable trust barriers as well as a discriminatory ESG/DEI environment which makes it impossible for me (a straight white male) to raise funding to pay for advertising.
I know other people in similar situations. Apparently in Australia, half of the working age population is on welfare and at the same time there are shortages of many essential services like daycare which prevent people who have children from working as one parent has to stay home. Apparently the government is making it hard for daycare businesses to expand which is driving the shortage.
Also, tax brackets in Australia are based on individual income, not household income and therefore, taxes are very high if only one partner is working (which is often the case due to the shortage of daycare centers as mentioned above).
Property prices are also very high and rent is very high. The government is also ramping up immigration to prop up property prices + rents and foreigners end up taking many of the jobs which increases competition, drives down wages and makes paying rent even harder.
It's like everything is broken and the brokenness compounds. Even the incentives are broken so it's not even fixable with the current political system.
The media and funding environment just doesn't allow new tech ventures to launch and find their first users unless the founders are in some special in-group.
I don't even want to get into the details of what happened to me up until that point in my career. It's been an epic tale about the struggle for survival... Not in some remote forest in the Amazon or lost on some remote island like Robinson Crusoe, but merely survival in a profoundly dysfunctional socio-economic system.
Companies are also cutting higher salary employees and reducing hiring.
Just kidding. It took me a couple months to find a new job over the fall, and I couldn't believe how grueling the experience was compared to the past. It was a full-time job just searching and interviewing, and at every step I was reminded of how many other candidates there were. Had to pass nine separate interviews to land an offer from my current employer. By that time, I had one other offer, and I was just ready to be done. Luckily, they were my first choice from the beginning.
I think part of what is going on is that tech is highly sensitive to interest rates, but that's not the whole story. There was also a cultural shift that happened. Many places issued return to office policies that acted as stealth layoffs. Most developers that went remote over the pandemic probably wish to remain remote, and remote jobs are harder to get interviews for due to competition. A lot of places also fucked around with replacing US developers with overseas contractors. By now, I think a lot of those places have resumed hiring in the US. Given time, it will get better.
Best of luck.
It was like WTF. Obviously the entire economy has turned into some insane scheme. There's no way these sudden market changes are natural.
What sickens me about modern society is that whenever they cheat you, they always accompany it with gaslighting... Which is exactly what this 'record low unemployment' rhetoric is.
Just like ESG/DEI/wokeness it's pure media gaslighting designed to cover up the fact that they had started discriminating against straight white people. Now whenever a young white person tells their parents "I can't get a job because they're discriminating against me," they give a weird look and respond with something like "Uhhhh, no, no, no, it's everyone else who is being discriminated against, that's what the media said. Sounds like you're just lazy, too lazy to even come up with your own excuses."
Thankfully I'm good at explaining things and my parents are intelligent so I think they understand what's happening now but there was a moment of tension. Reminded me of the COVID vaccine mandate + media hysteria breaking families apart.
I try not to take anything seriously and just focus on survival. It's like everything is fucked in the most optimal way imaginable. Optimized for fuckery, not efficiency...
The data scientist doing Dash is underemployed and counted in the U6 numbers. Despite this, U6 numbers are well below historical averages.
Is that how it works in the US?
More broadly though, the “welfare trap” that you describe is definitely a thing. I’m not in the states anymore, but the best healthcare I ever had was when I went back to school and qualified for “Medicaid” through the state of Colorado because my income was close to 0. That health plan was far better than any that are offered for sale so I had to make sure to not exceed the income threshold until I took a high paying dev job that came with good benefits.
EDIT: reading the sibling comment, I want to clarify I’m only speaking anecdotally. Everyone I know to ever have gone on welfare (at least those I was close enough with to discuss) lived in Pennsylvania state.
In reality, like inflation or jobs reports, the numbers are really just a shell game played by politically inclined departments. To put it simply, the actual employment rate is down ~2% since 2008. In real terms, we have ~2% less Americans employed since 2008. That said ~60% currently are employed.
That’s because the government calculates the unemployment rate as “those seeking employment” but there’s a bunch of criteria for that. In truth, 40% of people aren’t working, 60% are.
Is there a number I can call to make sure I'm included in the statistics?
(The data series are Activity Rate: Aged 25 - 54 years: Males for United States, and Activity Rate: Aged 25 - 54 years: Females for United States.)
Adults younger than 25 are often still in school, although there is a growing share of stay-at-homes. Older than 54, well, they may have enough, or they may have health problems.
Just saying "40% of people aren't working" presents a less-than-nuanced picture. Some of them are kids and the very old.
In particular, Table A shows that even with the downward revisions, the unemployment rate has been below 4.0% every month of the year (up through November); and in only one month (October) was the revision significant to increase the reported unemployment rate.
Comparing to the Vietnam War times would be fraught with unknowns because of so many differences between that period, now, and in between. For example, labor force participation by gender thoroughly changed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Labor_Force_Participat... And for another, gig work appeared.
So did education and, it feels to me, minimum wage policy.
Also I hear lots of stories of techies in long unemployed gaps. While in theory there is still plenty of talk of companies having a hard time finding people.
So while I'm happy for the numbers, IMO they don't represent the reality people face. Which makes the statistics pretty useless.
We can be sure it is objectively relevant because it is what people are experiencing, which is of course reality. If you can demonstrate that there is some other non-employment related reason people feel this way, does that mean they don't feel it? Or are somehow wrong to? Where does that even get you?
Maybe there is something else! There are probably lots of things going on. People keep saying this is affecting them though, and we have to believe them that it is.
Spending less time on YouTube may not improve your financial situation, but it could change how secure you feel. On the other hand a second job can help if you’re actually just drowning in collage debt etc.
Your argument here seems to defend the validation of people's feelings. If my point is accurate, you argue, then how people feel doesn't matter. Instead, consider what makes people feel bad about their general situation; if the cause of low sentiment isn't economic, then an improved economic situation won't improve sentiment.
It's important to tease out these things. Lumping everything together may allow us to "legitimize" negative feelings, but it doesn't give us a clear view of the causes, prohibiting our ability to consider viable improvements.
What does it mean for a someone's belief that they are one mishap from financial disaster to be "objectively relevant?" Are you saying they're wrong about their own precarity, or simply wrong to feel bad about it? It's certainly relevant to them that they feel this way. Whether it aligns with a measurable metric is another question but not the one they were talking about.
Similarly, what "things beyond reality" are people using to come to these conclusions? Astrology? Are they hallucinating their dire financial situation and the penurious chasm beneath them?
Using the words correctly doesn't mean you are using them rightly. In this case you are not.
At this point, only someone who wants to fight would read what I wrote as you have. A more reasonable interpretation of what I’ve written would be that sentiment may not be entirely associated with economic safety. “It is unlikely that sentiment would improve if unemployment dropped further”, would be a good illustration of my argument, for example (a point you alluded to elsewhere in this submission).
I recommend trying to read what I wrote with a less aggressive agenda, because the way you’re approaching this interaction is too hostile for a reasonable person to presume positive intent. It seems more likely to involve your own bad mood than anything I’ve actually written.
But even rereading it now, as charitably as I can, it still to me seems to say something pretty close to "people feeling bad is not valid." Even knowing what you intended, that's what it says. So idk, maybe we both have something to learn here regardless of my bad mood or whatever.
Luxembourg has a 6% unemployment rate, the US has a 3.7% unemployment rate, and North Korea has a 0% unemployment rate.
Those unemployment numbers are objective realities in terms of being a reflection of a set of collection methods and definitions. But those are not merely a poor proxy for the population's overall wellbeing, they are actively _misleading_.
Prices for food, housing, medical care, education, and used cars going up in the US by 20-50% in a 3 year period while corporate profit margin percentages are at historical highs does not inspire confidence in the future.
Throw in an ongoing decline in life expectancy that puts the US firmly in the category of developing countries while paying 250-400% more GDP for medical care than other industrialized countries, two costly proxy wars which threaten to continue growing in scope, outright state and regulatory capture...
...and worst of all, a political, economic, judicial, and cultural elite with a fairly bipartisan mainstream consensus which doesn't appear to be willing or able to seriously address these issues with policy favored by suparmajorities of the voting public but not by the largest donors.
When the people in charge have been pissing on your leg for decades and tell you that it's just raining when you never see them get wet, you can't expect the abuse to stop in the future, not even if you elect the alternative from one of the two oligarch-backed choices.
I'm not taking a stance on "what is wrong with the world" here per se, but if I were I'm more aligned with what you're saying than thinking 0% unemployment is the solution to our problems or whatever.
There's a lot of politically driven economic boosterism in the air right now (more than usual even) and I may have lazily assigned you to that camp with scant basis.
It's natural for politicians and their adherents to cherry-pick the data and intentionally withhold context on it to make themselves look as good as possible, while their opponents do the reverse. Then everyone accuses the other side of ignoring their numbers which they say are the true reflection of "reality."
Ever was it thus, but it's more exaggerated in these conditions where both the "good numbers" and the "bad numbers" break records and can zig-zag suddenly.
I would like to see a chart with overlays of GDP, unemployment, average CEO-to-worker-pay-multiplier, average congressional and presidential election campaign expenditure, average net worth increase for different brackets (including top 0.1% individuals), etc.
I highly suspect that the CEO multiplier, campaign expenditure, and 0.1% net worth increase lines would move similarly... and would imply that they are more significant indicators of how (poorly) the normal people are faring compared to other/previous years.
Participation rate is much more meaningful IMO
Example, the participation rate is currently ~67%, so its inverse is 33%.
This means that 33% of the working age population are currently not employed
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART
> The Labor Force Participation Rate is defined by the Current Population Survey (CPS) as “the number of people in the labor force as a percentage of the civilian noninstitutional population […] the participation rate is the percentage of the population that is either working or actively looking for work.”
These sources both give the civilian labor force participation rate as 62.5% in December 2023.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART/
https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-lab...
"The data reveal that as of late 2023, most workers are earning more, in inflation-adjusted terms, than they were one year prior, and the fraction of workers receiving real wage increases is about the same as it was in the years before the pandemic. The data also suggest that most individual workers are earning more today than they were before the pandemic; every prime-age worker cohort has higher inflation-adjusted median wages than before the pandemic. "
https://www.axios.com/2024/01/06/chart-wage-growth-beating-i...
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/workers-paychecks-a...
The impact of that chart on real prices means that it would take about two decades for people to have the same economic power as they did before the pandemic.
Let's not forget that we have price misalignment because of a decade of zero interest.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/08/excess-profits-of-big-firms-...
And wages did not increase at the same rate as corporate profit taking.
>>> the normal people are faring compared to other/previous years.
The economic disparity is gross, you can't argue excess.
Comparing to the past is isn't going to play out the way you think. What time period do you want to compare to? Is that a period where "better off" was for a narrow segment of the population, where "better off" was robbing tomorrow?
The problem is that life looks a lot like the classic game design dilemma of "power creep".
I'm not sure that this is 100% accurate, but its close enough to convey the point: https://compasscaliforniablog.com/have-american-homes-change...
If it was 1950, no cell phone (1 house phone bill), no internet, no cable, no streaming, no Spotify, no computer... You might have a tv (one, singular), radio, those are one time costs. Power, water, phone, food, house/transport (and likely 1 car for many family's). My neighborhood grocery story is a gym... so we traded a close by place to shop for more travel for food, and a place you pay to go exercise.
People ate canned and frozen veg, not fresh trucked in from everywhere items. And before you make the argument for health, go look at the nutrient content of a flash frozen green bean vs one that sat in a box for a week to get to your plate, the frozen wins.
Guess what, all of what we have, unsustainable. 8 billion people can't live like middle class Americans! As more of the globe wants in on the action things are only going to get HARDER for people, unless we make some drastic lifestyle changes.
In 2005 I managed to wiggle my way out of poverty by splitting a $615/mo apartment 4 ways on minimum wage (and I considered that quite lucky at the time). I ate mostly rice, soy, beans, and frozen veggies because that was the cheapest thing I could eat. Eggs were a luxury.
That same apartment is $1799/mo now and minimum wage is virtually the same. I would probably be dead or worse trying to escape poverty in those same conditions. Add in that the humiliation people must feel driving for Uber or running Doordash. You're helping others live a lifestyle that's unreachable for you, ever.
Even though I can afford it these days I still refuse to Doordash / Uber because I feel like these services are fundamentally dehumanizing. I will fetch my own food, and drive/transport myself. It's not hard.
These unemployment numbers just bury the struggle of regular people with a numerical handwave.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1dLeQ
Is a start but you'll want to fiddle with the units.
This is not true.
How can job gains be in government? Does that mean size of government is growing?
By gaining more employees than they lost.
> Does that mean size of government is growing?
In the literal sense of increasing staffing, yes.
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf
> Government employment increased by 52,000 in December. Employment continued to trend up in local government (+37,000) and federal government (+7,000). Government added an average of 56,000 jobs per month in 2023, more than double the average monthly gain of 23,000 in 2022.
We see from the participation rate [0] that wages are not high enough to get men into jobs (or they just don't have the skills to be able to work productively). Women aren't moving in to the labour market any more either which is interesting.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Labor_Force_Participat...
But rather it’s designed to inform business about the state of the labour market.
In recent decades of course it’s used as a political popularity tool.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/wb/data/lfp/women-by-age
This shows women participating at nearly the highest levels ever.
Here is it overall (also very close to its historical max):
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300060
This removes the effect of an aging population.