Royal Navy forced to recruit for tob job on social media | Hacker News Reader

Royal Navy forced to recruit for tob job on social media

independent.co.uk

20 pointsdeidei39 comments

Isn't this a bit of a non-story? There's no evidence that they were forced to do anything. Nearly every senior job is advertised somewhere.

For example - you can apply to be Puisne Judge of the Supreme Court of Gibraltar if you like https://apply.judicialappointments.digital/vacancy/lQlCzxeR4...

The Royal Navy seems to advertise all levels of jobs on LinkedIn - and wider.

Surely having an open and fair advertisement is better than finding someone you went to school with and discreetly tapping them on the shoulder?

> The Royal Navy seems to advertise all levels of jobs on LinkedIn - and wider.

Wasn't aware of this. Can you please link to some more similar job ads? Is this the standard in other militaries too?

Based on what I know there is a roster of eligible candidates with the required experience in most countries. One of them is promoted from there to fill in the vacancy. I've never seen an ad for a post like this before.

> Generation Z is not joining the armed forces in the way my generation did

Why aren't the kids joining the military? Did something happen in the last few decades that made them rethink it as a career option, possibly?

Didn't stop them from joining companies such as Facebook, Uber, etc. though...

Unlike the military, you can quit anytime from these companies.

A whole lot of (mostly-)little things, over the past half-ish century, have lead them to seriously doubt the existing social order. Volunteering for military service is something of an all-in endorsement of that order.

Though it doesn't help that British kids have felt no visceral "we're at risk from $Powerful_Enemy!" fears since ~1990.

One has to wonder if a majority of lower class able bodied men would particularly care if an enemy took over.

Wasn't the lower class overwhelmingly pro brexit? They are xenophobic.

One only needs to look at the Glorious Revolution to see what a hostile takeover of Britain by a foreign power which pays lip service to Britishness would look like.

Also one rather needs ones army to be xenophobic, a xenophilic army would be somewhat poor at its job.

I've been musing that the majority of ~canon fodder~ lower class working men are so destructively disengaged from main stream western culture that a new branch of Islam with 19th century western sensibilities - nationalism, nativism, chauvinism, etc. - would have very little trouble in taking over.

Who amongst GenZ would be qualified for a Rear Admiral position anyways? The job requires 20 years of experience in the armed forces.

I'm guessing they're trying to say, because Gen Z isn't interested in the military, they didn't join early on and built enough experience and knowledge to now be eligible for the position.

Anyone who’s old enough to have a 20 year military career is at least a millennial.

While I was never eligible to serve in the military due to a health condition, I can also say that violent video games had the opposite effect on me that many adults feared they might - I learned via first person shooters that other humans were quite skilled at killing me and was smart enough to know that there aren't any re-spawns in real life. As a result, I never wanted to get in a gunfight with anyone.

Also, while I was quite naive to the realities of the geopolitical order as a kid (and probably am now too as an adult), the clear hard sell pitch that George Bush gave the country about how we needed to invade Iraq made me instantly suspicious of his motivations. I think that instinct has proven quite correct in retrospect and is probably one of the happenings you're alluding to over the last few decades.

That's just me as an American Millennial, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's somewhat of a general view.

Even your "cynical" view is a bit rosy. Indirect fire is the main killer. Most soldiers won't even see an enemy soldier before they are dead or wounded.

In addition to all the comments, it’s way easier to see what “army life” looks like nowadays from videos. Sprinkle some real footage from recent wars, to see the worst case scenarios, I’m not sure how I can ever be convinced to be a part of it.

> Why aren't the kids joining the military? Did something happen in the last few decades that made them rethink it as a career option, possibly?

Wouldn't the right question to answer be why anyone would want to join the military? At best you get an average/below-average salary, at worst you get sent to fight in wars. Seems like very little benefits for a lot of risks.

It’s the surest way to access European-like benefits for the lower class, in the US. Housing (for your family, too), healthcare (ditto), retirement, free education, paid vacation (if not much of it). Pretty good schools for your kids, mostly.

But in most of the rest of the OECD, like Britain? Yeah, not sure.

Instead maybe simply emigrate to Europe?

How on earth do you think immigrating anywhere is an easy process?

Easier than subjecting yourself to an abusive, aggressive, nationalistic organization with its own laws, that may take you to a battlefield.

I had known many who made the US-EU jump, it didn't sounded particularly hard (the administrative part)

As someone with a high school diploma and nothing else, and zero cash in the bank? Those are the folks to whom enlisting is appealing (in the US, at least). Not college grads in hot, in-demand fields with at least five figures liquid and ready to spend on immigration expenses.

I'm in the same boat as you are more or less - just have cash in the bank - beyond that everything I do is based on North American standards - much of it does not directly translate to Europe - if I wanted to remain employable, Canada or Australia is where I would have to go, as in my industry they're closer to the US technically.

Tell me how I know you've never LEGALLY tried to move to a new country.

The other problem is it’s not just a job, you sign away your rights for life and can be recalled at any time. Also, if you really piss them off they can recall you then try you under the BS military judicial system instead.

If you’re particularly unlucky you get blown up in the sandbox 6,000 miles from home and die for nothing.

Don’t sign on the line kids, it’s never worth it.

To fill a position as "director of submarines and [who] would be responsible for 'elite operations' and the nation’s nuclear deterrent" requires intimate knowledge of the workings of the Royal Navy. It would almost certainly be a promotion from within or for someone who had as least previously worked for the Royal Navy and risen to a high level. Wouldn't hiring a headhunter to do a targeted search work better than using Linkedin?

https://news.sky.com/story/us-general-warns-british-army-no-...

They’ve apparently kept cutting costs for a long period of time. This has probably hurt the value proposition for attracting young talent.

Maybe I'm exposing my own stupidity here, but why would it be bad to advertise the position? Is it because they used LinkedIn or is the mere action of advertising the position instead of trying to fill the position in secrecy the bad part?

I'm guessing that $TODAYS_ENEMY would know about the position being unfilled no matter if it's posted on LinkedIn or not, which some "former submariner" complained about.

> why would it be bad to advertise the position?

Not an expert but from what I understand a position of this level should ideally be filled internally by reassigning or promoting a officer that is already serving. These posts are really important and need someone with decades of experience in the navy. It is terrible if they cannot find someone internally.

I wouldn't even say ideally. I would say filling internally is essential. The top comment on the featured article I think summarizes it well: It's not the broader recruitment issue among gen Z. It's that for some reason none of the senior officers below this position want it. THAT is indeed quite troubling.

It suggests strongly that the entire organization has deep systemic issues that no one wants to step up and try to fix.

I'm guessing it has more to do with the shame of not having a pool of obvious candidates available. An admiral who has no subordinates or peers who are qualified for the position?

None of the internal candidates qualified to do the job are interested, which says something.

I thought "tob" was a typo in the HN submission but no, it's right there on their website.

Tactical Order of Battle, maybe?

It must be a typo from the independent, right? Its driving my insane.

yes, it is a typo from the independent.

> Its driving my insane.

Off topic, but you made another typo here lol

Tob -> Top

Are you translating into American for the western English speakers?

If all the suitable insiders are not applying then maybe there is something wrong with the job? Could it be e.g. that it has all the responsibility but little power to do anything?

This seems bizarre, insofar as it seems predicated on the assumption of there being a pool of eligible candidates currently unknown to the navy.

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