Discontinued and unreleased Microsoft peripherals revived by licensing deal | Hacker News Reader

Discontinued and unreleased Microsoft peripherals revived by licensing deal

arstechnica.com

Sadly they aren't continuing Microsoft's Surface Arc Mouse. As far as I know this is the only non-Apple mouse with a scroll surface, and not a physical scroll wheel.

Apple's patent on touch sensitive mice (8279176B2) doesn't expire until 2026.

One day physical scroll wheels will be a thing of the past.

I will miss them, but I won't miss how dirty they get.

Washing your hands helps.

I can't edit my post anymore but since this was downvoted I want to elaborate that I meant this seriously. I wash my hands before using my computer, and my peripherals don't get dirty. I also don't eat at my computer desk.

Absolutely, but only to an extent.

Every article about this deal mentions that Microsoft will continue to make the Surface branded products. Including mice.

The Wedge Touch Mouse, which has a weird wedge shape and runs out of a single AA battery also has touch sensitive (vertical only IIRC? haven’t used it in a while) scroll as far as I can tell.

I didn't know that model. It looks like the cybertruck got it's insipration from it.

It’s definitely not ergonomic, but very portable. I have it as a backup pointer just in case.

>One day physical scroll wheels will be a thing of the past.

And this is good?

I still miss, and wish I could find a contemporary replacement for, the original Apple "Magic Mouse" with scroll ball.

Until then, I get by w/ a Logitech G600 (and a couple of spares).

Seriously, the clickable scroll wheel was one of the best things to ever happen to mice. Ones with a side-to-side toggle action are even better.

Was the arc mouse good? I’ve often wondered about buying it, last I saw they were still available for about €45.

Some people really love them. For me, since there isn't anything to grasp on the sides, it induced cramps to where I'd have to take a break.

If they built something on the chassis of the Intellimouse, but with the Arc's touch surface, that could really be something.

The ergonomics were awful, so I gave up on mine.

I replaced my MS Arc mouse with Lenovo X1 presenter mouse. I prefer it overall (esp the price), but the haptic scroll was better on the MS mouse.

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/keyb...

Would love for the scroll wheel to be replaced with a trackball for 2D scrolling. A touch surface, though? Please no.

> One day physical scroll wheels will be a thing of the past.

God I hope not. I want more tactile feedback in my interfaces, not less.

Weirdly enough, touch scrolling caused problem to my wrist, but not the scroll wheel, so I hope it doesn't go away

There was a bit of a dark age but by now there's way better keyboards than the MS ergonomic.

One discontinued MS peripheral that is still quite sought after but not in that list would be the Trackball Explorer[1]. There's sadly very little competition in the large trackball space. DIY designs are starting to crop up[2], but it's nowhere near where the mechanical keyboard scene is today.

[1] https://www.trackballmouse.org/microsoft-trackball-explorer/

[2] https://github.com/jfedor2/scroll-ring-trackball

Mx Ergo is great as a thumb trackball, the Kensington trackballs are well reviewed, elecom has the giant mice and I think l-trac mice were bought out by x-key and they still exist and you have ploopy that came out of diy from Reddit.

I have the mx ergo which I bought to prevent carpal tunnel syndrome (not that I got a problem, but few persons around started having it).

And I wouldn't recommend it, I end up having some pain in my right thumb, that stopped when I stopped using it.

However this is just my experience.

Try it again if you have it in a drawer, its funky to get use to like re-training a muscle. Maybe try the Ergo Plus instead, I don't like the rubber material on the top but the added angle has my hand resting on it naturally.

I stopped using it a month ago, after having a pain in my thumb that was there constantly and I never had. Now, it does not hurt anymore. I do have the mx ergo plus.

I never had any problem with any mouse, it is the fact that I need to move the thumb so much. Also I might have a job which is more intensive in mouse than most people coding.

Or perhaps is that the "celtic hand" runs in my family and it is not good to use. I am afraid I will have to sell it, which I don´t particularly like because it costed me quite a lot.

I have a pair of Kensington Expert Mouse full size trackballs (optical, 4 button with scroll wheel, and USB) that are both over a decade old and still work great. Kensington still seem to sell this same model.

Elecom HUGE is a fantastic daily driver for me.

https://www.amazon.com/ELECOM-M-HT1DRBK-Wireless-Trackball-M...

> There was a bit of a dark age but by now there's way better keyboards than the MS ergonomic.

Do you have any examples? Ideally that are the same price as the Ergo was (and probably will be) at $59?

No Natural Pro[1] :(

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_ergonomic_keyboards#...

I still have PTSD from colleagues using that Microsoft ergonomic keyboard with the world’s loudest space bar. Hopefully they’ll change that

Oh god...you brought up what I pushed far away. That echoing pain though the whole floor. You couldn't even talk him out of it because it's sooo healthy....yeah maybe for your wrists, surely not for my psyche.

Louder than a clicky mechanical keyboard? Doubt it.

You clearly never used an IBM model M keyboard

Wrong ;) Had them in our labs at university. So 3 years of weekly usage

I use that one in the image as my daily driver. Unlike its predecessor, it’s very quiet, the keys bottom out firmly but softly.

It’s also the only keyboard I’ve found that doesn’t exacerbate my RSI - and I’ve tried all kinds of weird split ergo designs. No cool points though.

I would kill for a USB re-release of the venerable Microsoft Sidewinder 3D Pro, still the best joystick I have ever used.

In fact, I still have mine in the closet. The only reason I haven't used it is because no computer these days has a game port. Maybe I should investigate USB adapters...?

Seconded.

Even if you would, the games don't support it anymore. It really was the best joystick I've eveused

I love Microsoft hardware and I have been using their peripherals since the late 80s. Logitech is also very good, but never had quite the reliability and simplicity combined with innovation of Microsoft's hardware products.

Same. Nothing but positive experiences, still rocking my ergo.

almost every logitech product I've bought in the last 6 years has failed early and while their warranty is honored, having to go through it for basically every item is very frustrating compared to just not having the issues with mouse and keyboard switches.

I think their products are priced on the assumption they have to send you a replacement because the failure rates are so high.

Still looking for good replacements for everything.

I’m not sure if you’ve also needed up with bad logitech mice but apparently that’s not poor build quality but rather logi choosing to use a reduced voltage, preventing the sensor contacts from properly getting “wetted” leading to eventual rust/oxidation build up. Sandpaper ought to fix it in theory. Still sucks though, not defending logi for the weird decision.

ya I understand I could get new switches or somehow fix these, but its one of those 'even if they honor the warranty, how many times am I interested in dealing with poorly designed and failing peripherals'.

The first time you replace something under warranty you feel good because wow they honored the warranty. The 6th time you realize the products themselves have design flaws and being replaced under warranty is just hassle my life doesn't need, especially at the prices logitech charges for their products.

My last remaining logitech product is a g603 I bought for $30 at costco and it will likely be my last logitech product until they can demonstrate they're not building things to fail early anymore.

Tbh I've started seeing their terrible mouse switches as a bonus. It means I get a free replacement every 12-20 months.

I'd rather just have one that works and no hassle of RMAs.

Logitech does not qualify for "very good". maybe for "good enough"

Logitech’s product line is completely bifurcated into their horrible products and good products — there’s no in between.

For example, most of their consumer-focused Bluetooth peripherals are great (such as the K380 keyboard).

Seconding this. I've been using a Logitech gaming mouse for several years full time without problems (other than the software), and then I bought one of Logitech's consumer line, a Marathon with a super-long battery life.

I thought it was broken - the mouse turns the sensor off if you stop using it for a few seconds, leading to noticeable delays when you start using it again. And the polling rate is so low that it seems to skip some movements, like the old mice with the physical ball you had to clean.

I also had one of the first Logitech "Laser" mice which was unable to track consistently on any surface, worse than the optical mice it was supposed to replace.

Both Microsoft and Logitech mice are crap quality. Unfortunately everybody else is much much worse.

This is one of those cheap "everything is bad" takes. I recently had two mice: a logitech g pro which was great, and now a logitech mx vertical which was also great.

This is one of those cheap 'everything is fine' takes. I recently also bought a logitech mouse and it's as shitty as shittiest no-name Chinese mice.

I’ve owned 3 different Logitech mice and have had a ton of issues with Bluetooth and the LogiOptions software.

There isn’t much competition, and only recently are we seeing other companies like Elgato compete with Logitech’s peripherals.

I've used an MX Master 2S for two years now and this is the first time I've thought about it for more than five seconds.

Now that I'm considering it, though, this is easily the nicest scroll wheel I've ever used.

What does it take to make a mouse wheel that doesn't shit the bed, and who's making it? I'd just like to give them some obscene triple price and be done with mice.

I dunno their mice are ok. I've got a G203 on the PC and an MX Master 3 on the mac and they are both excellent. The G203 is the best mouse I've used since the MS optical mice.

Only downside is you have to turn all the RGB lights crap off on the G203.

My first mouse was a Microsoft Mouse bought around 1987. It continued working for many years and I've only stopped using it because screen resolutions increased too much for it to handle.

https://deskthority.net/wiki/Microsoft_mouse_(3rd_gen)

There is something about the way the buttons and scroll wheels feel that no other manufacturer could match. Not even Logitech.

Incase bought a dead end. I don’t understand the love for these classic products outside of nostalgia and habit.

The peripherals market made massive strides since these were in their heyday. These were solid mid-range options years ago but they’re just not competitive anymore.

For the same price as the Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard you can buy a split ergonomic keyboard with real mechanical switches. You even get multiple switch choices.

Microsoft had a respectable product line but the market has caught up and surpassed it.

This reminds me of those Unicomp IBM keyboards. I bought one, thought it was great at the time, but later on bought a more modern-design mechanical keyboard. In comparison the Unicomp keyboard was so clearly an inferior nostalgia product: louder, heavier (in a bad way), and worse key feel and travel than the vast array of switches available on the market today.

Do you have a list of keyboards that are the same price as the MS Ergo (retail price of $59) that are as good? Because I've never found one.

Perixx Periboard-335BL is the one that I found on Amazon, $59. Seems like the same idea but with the mechanical switches. Admittedly it’s missing a number pad.

I owned an MS ergonomic keyboard around 10 years ago and those membranes are so mediocre.

My overall point is that if you’re spending $60 on a membrane keyboard you’re so close to being able to afford a mechanical one that I’m not sure who that $60 product is for.

Last year I bought a Microsoft Intellimouse Pro which I really, really like. Besides being a tad heavy it has been a pleasure to use. I didn't know Microsoft stopped making mice and keyboards. Such a bummer.

I wonder what some alternative brands would be. Logi has been terrible for me in reliability.

The Pro IntelliMouse is basically a minimalist gaming mouse, so that's the market to look at. Unfortunately its competitors tend to be more expensive, less reliable, and sometimes (in the case of Razer at least) require horrible software to function properly.

Unfortunately they're not bringing back the classic Wheel Mouse Optical.

First thing I checked, would have instantly bought at least two. Oh well.

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

I still have 4-5 of them in reserve, it's the mouse that fits my hands the best by far. And they all still work :)

It's the best HW microsoft has made I think, complete opposite of the horrible "magic mouse" by apple.

I also stocked up but then moved on.

They actually restarted production of those at one point if I recall correctly. The ones with the little red led at the front. But I guess the design was really too dated now

I did not realise MS stopped selling computer peripherals.

The "Sculpt Ergonomic Mouse" gets a lot of mixed reviews more on the negative side but it's the only mouse that helped with my wrist pain - the combination of its angle and it being fairly large is what does it.

The only problem is that the mouse button wears down after about a year, it's repairable with some superglue but the clickiness changes.

I hope the two I have last until onward starts selling them.

Sadly missing from the list -- anyone else's favorite keyboard?

Comfort Curve 3000

https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Comfort-Curve-Keyboard-Busi...

Been using the surface precision mouse for years now and it's just so good, great functionality, comfortable and looks very sleek. I'm sad that Microsoft is discontinuing this line but I'm happy that they will live on elsewhere.

It would be cool if they made a version of the keyboard with Topre or similar quality switches. And feet that didn’t fall off.

I think that the Microsoft ergonomic keyboard is selling for nearly $400 on Amazon.

Yeah, hopefully this fixes that problem. I've been using MS Ergos for 15+ years, I'm on my fourth one. The keys work fine but all the paint wore off so now I'm worried it might die before I can replace it.

I went from Microsoft ergo 4000 to cloud9 mechanical ergo. The key layout is so similar! No learning curve. A big dial in the middle which I've gotten used to though.

Nice recommendation. Although, it is 3-6x the price of the Microsoft products' original pricing. A Kinesis Freestyle is cheaper

Ok wow I have my mother's old one in the cupboard. Will have to clean it up and test it.

If the Wave keyboard is not on the list, I'm not interested

Does anyone have / setting aside the space for Kbd's like the Ergonomic? There are way better designs available than this plastic bomber from ~two decades ago.

There are plenty of other ergonomic keyboards than those of Microsoft, but all of them cost many times more than a Microsoft keyboard and they are also hard to find at any shop in many places.

If you are willing to pay over $100 for a keyboard, then the existence of Microsoft keyboards becomes irrelevant, otherwise they have been a very useful option for many.

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