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Comment by jeffbee | Hacker News Reader

As a person who uses almost all of Apple's hardware, and almost all of Google's services, and none of Apple's services, the behavior that always strikes me as the most harmful to consumers is the constant nagging of users about the intended behavior of their chosen third-party apps, while their operating systems remain silent about the exact same behaviors of first-party apps. For example iOS has several silent default-opt-in location data features that I do not want or need, and at the same time it regularly tries to trick me into disabling location features of Google Maps, that I've used daily since 2005.

The other issue is the constant nagging, that can't be disabled, about iCloud backups being full, when in fact I never wanted them in the first place and as far as I can tell or recall they stole that data from me.

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> it regularly tries to trick me into disabling location features of Google Maps, that I've used daily since 2005.

Citation needed. I periodically get popups for even Apple's own first-party apps asking if I still want to share location. "Do you still want Weather to know where you are?" Yes, I do, because I use it. You may very well be getting the same message for Google apps, but that's not special anti-Google behavior.

> The other issue is the constant nagging, that can't be disabled, about iCloud backups being full

Then turn off iCloud backups. It's an optional feature that makes sense to be on by default, but that's trivially easy to disable if you don't want it.

> Citation needed.

Apple launders the location features of Apple Maps through platform location service controls. iOS will never, ever prompt you about Maps' own background location access. The controls for Maps' background location access are buried in System Services, and are defaulted on, and do not produce the tracking nag. The fact that the first-party Weather app is not also immune to the nag doesn't seem material.

The whole situation is in stark contrast to Android, where if you throw the phone in a drawer for a few months the platform will automatically revoke all of the privacy allowances of Google's own apps. Which is maybe not great, since resuming the use of such a device is sort of impossible (it will prompt you for shit like whether Phone is allowed to record audio), but you can't say it's anti privacy.

... I wonder if the Maps app itself plays some role in providing Location services. That'd explain why they'd privilege it for location data, but not other first part apps that use location (why wouldn't they do that with all of them, if they were really doing this to "cheat"?)

[EDIT] Though, regardless, I do see why it'd rankle that in fact Apple Maps ends up seeing fewer permission-reminders than Google Maps, even if it's for a not-exactly-intended-as-nefarious reason—I don't mean to dismiss your complaint.

Your experience is vastly different from my own. Where do you see documented that Maps is immune from location permission popups? And if you're not using Apple Maps, what indication have you see that it's using your location? That is, why would it ask you if it could continue accessing your location if you're not opening the app and triggering it to find you?

I don't know if the location services permission is initially on in Apple Maps, but I just checked to see if you can turn it off, and you definitely can, without affecting other apps' ability to use it.

The nag to sign up for iCloud is terrible. It is literally not possible to arrange Apple devices and not pay for that. There’s no reason under the sun for it to be required (architecturally speaking) they just do it to force you into becoming another revenue stream. This is (in my opinion) the biggest example of Apple’s abuse of their monopoly position.

> This is (in my opinion) the biggest example of Apple’s abuse of their monopoly position.

An opinion driven by ignorance. Last I looked Apple doesn’t have a monopoly.

> literally

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

The fact that none of the Apple apps have privacy labels for users to see if extremely annoying.

I can go to AppStore and see what data each app uses or read user reviews but there's no way to do that for any Apple apps for some reason.

That's simply untrue. I opened the App Store on my iPhone, searched for Maps, tapped the Apple Maps item, scrolled down, and there's its privacy scorecard. I did the same for Messages, Mail, Photos, and Phone. All of them show up in the App Store with user reviews and the privacy section that all other apps have.

I'm not trying to be an Apple defender here. I don't work for them. They don't pay me. It's just that the things you and the person above you said are factually, demonstrably wrong. Not like "well, that's a difference of opinion" wrong, but like "takes a few seconds to disprove, complete with screenshots": https://imgur.com/a/3S03PtW

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