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Comment by kpozin | Hacker News Reader

What about the MS Office key and Emoji key? Those were definitely added after 1994.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/using-the-office-k...

Random keys are added to keyboards all the time. In this case Microsoft is requiring it from all their PC vendors.

Oof. This should be more like a media key than a required key. I view it like a "Volume up/down" key, it's nice but not essential. Although it's probably much less useful than a volume key.

You could say the same about the Windows key itself. Many did.

You mean the super key or command key...

This should really be the top comment in the whole thread because almost all of the comments I've read so far are missing this point.

Yes, _keyboard manufacturers_ are allowed to add/remove any keys that they want. But most PC users are not buying keyboards from third-party vendors. They are buying them as part of the whole PC from OEMs like Dell, HP, and Lenovo. And the Windows OEM license agreements for those vendors state (to paraphrase), "If you want to ship Windows on your systems, you have to include the Windows and Copilot keys on the keyboard."

And it follows that keyboard manufacturers _want_ to have their keyboards include all the same keys as the OEMs so that they can claim complete compatibility with the OEMs, possibly to the point of calling the keyboards Microsoft Windows(TM) Compatible on the box.

How is that they thought adding a keyboard shortcut to open LinkedIn would be good use for a new key?

Because people will accidentally push the button and be sent to LinkedIn. Good for their stats. Computers are no longer being built to do what you want them to, but what the software maker wants you to do with them.

I cancelled Netflix years ago. I just got a new Shield TV remote with only a Netflix button and it is constantly getting hit. I probably hit it 5+ times a night. I wonder what they learn from that.

FYI you can remap that button to open another app, or two (different actions for press vs hold). I use an app called "Button Mapper"

Open it up and put a small bit of kapton tape on the circuit board beneath that button to prevent it from making contact. Then it will do nothing, forever.

If that button makes 1 out of 10 people have a slight preference for Netflix, it still adds up. The real question is how much Netflix is paying NVidia to have it there.

Those aren’t real keys in the sense of having their own keycodes, instead they just map to some other key combination. The Copilot key will presumably be similar (?). These “new keys” are unfortunate, and a regular key that you can remap to whatever you want would be more useful.

This so flagrantly stupid. It's easier to make every KB manufacturer integrate special firmware to have one keypress register as another specific one, rather than plumbing it in as a defined new key that Windows registers a handler for???

That’s what MS did with their own keyboards. Maybe they are actually defining a new key code for the Copilot key? It’s stupid either way.

Not defending MS, but keyboards already have controllers and have since at least the original PC (probably much earlier than that but I'm not very familiar with old mainframe terminals). Considering how many SKUs already exist for different layouts and the like, this isn't that big of a burden - at most, this requires updated firmware and pad printing layouts, and firmware already changes a decent amount as controllers and membrane layouts are modified for new SKUs and cost-reduction. And it's not like they have to update their existing stock or retool their lines right now, the phase-in will likely take some time.

Also, unless I missed something, I don't think the article says one way or another how this will be implemented. It could be a new scancode or emulate a key combo.

I for one am highly annoyed at new keys generating a combination, since that means they can't be mapped to some more useful function.

... though I've just realized that with Wayland, detecting key events is quite unreliable since half of them are eaten by the compositor ... oddly, they aren't even reliably eaten ...

Also they added a Cortana key a few years ago.

It must be in the press release because other media sites are reporting the same thing. Also Microsoft did not invent the Super/Meta key aka Windows key.

As mentioned elsewhere, this key will be required as a part of the standard Windows keyboard layout. This is not true of other recent keys (emoji, office, etc.).

Apparently they didn’t push the Cortana key either. And they say it will “eventually” be required. As a keyboard manufacturer why would I listen to Microsoft? Why would I add a key that supports a product I see no benefit from? Just so I can trend even though my customers don’t want it?

I ask because this makes the “Microsoft is going to require it so the other keys don’t count” argument useless. Who cares what Microsoft requires for their own hardware?

> As a keyboard manufacturer why would I listen to Microsoft? Why would I add a key that supports a product I see no benefit from?

As a keyboard manufacturer, you don't have to see any benefit from the product you support. The question is only will the incremental costs be more than offset by the incremental gains in sales. If MS requires the key, that's 90% of the market (really rough number), so it makes sense to add it. If MS and your competitors add it, it may make a significant percent of your customers go elsewhere. Even if they don't want the key, just because they think your keyboards are old.

Ah so aggressive keyboard trendsetters control the market then. It’s more likely that these keyboards will be a rarity. And when people see a keyboard with this key in a few years they’ll think, “what a weird old keyboard you have”.

> Also Microsoft did not invent the Super/Meta key aka Windows key

AFAIK the Windows key generates a CTRL + ESC - so not a modifier key like Super/Meta.

This doesn't seem to match what I sparsely remember about USB HID; At least on my computers I remember Super generating SUPER_L (wayland) or VK_LWIN (w32) - E0 5B scancodes.

At least on Linux you can have bindings CTRL + ESC and SUPER_L be different things if you want.

This does seem to work and is news to me. Windows 11, Leveno laptop. Control+ESC does in fact open the start menu. But none of the other windows key shortcuts work - control+ESC+D did not bring me to desktop, but bookmarked current page in the browser I had open.

So maybe not so cut and dry.

Shame on Ars for this. Would have thought they would be better. ESPECIALLY since the "since 1994" is not important for the headline at all, but they just wanted to pull something out of their ass to embellish the headline, but actually ended up making it wrong by doing so.

I miss terse but descriptive headlines. Everything now has to be 11/10 wild or clickbait that doesn't actually give a full piece of information.

I believe the key (maahahaha) is the requirement.

Microsoft famously required the Windows key for branded OEM computers/laptops, and now they're trying to require a Copilot key. We'll see if it flies.

I wished OEMs just crossed their arms and required Microsoft to pay a fee for each keyboard with this silly key...

That's effectively what "happens" but it's reversed; Microsoft gives a 'discount' if you're OEMing with the key ...

Perverse incentives all the way down. I remember having to work a bit to find "Apple" keyboards that would have the correct words because the Windows key was confusing (and in the wrong place until OS X easily supported remapping).

I see the word "clickbait" on HN so often it's lost all meaning. The headline is fine, not 11/10, and not wild.

"Microsoft is adding a new key to PC keyboards" - true, descriptive.

"for the first time since 1994" - provides context to the weight of the decision of adding a new key, absolutely fine.

The headline is not wrong, this is the first key added that will be required as part of the standard keyboard layout since 1994. No shaming needed.

> "the company told us that the key isn't mandatory now, but that it expects Copilot keys to be required on Windows 11 keyboards "over time."

It's not mandatory, and there is a chance it never will be. Just like the office key.

It's not mandatory yet, but they expect it to be.

I don't recall seeing similar statements from Microsoft about the office/emoji/etc. keys being expected to be mandatory. Was there statements along those lines?

> this is the first key added that will be required as part of the standard keyboard layout since 1994.

Is it? I thought they are just remapping the right menu key and putting a new logo on it.

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