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Comment by Alupis | Hacker News Reader

> The NLRA says both parties must negotiate a contract in good faith.

The NLRA exists to protect unions. At dispute is if these contractors are even Google employees. This is not "over" just because NLRA says so... in fact, they have very little enforcement abilities it seems.

> Google is fine to not meet the demands of the union, they must negotiate a contract in good faith.

Good Faith is a legalese way of saying "dealing honestly". It would be honest of Google to simply say "No" to every demand. A union is not a magic ticket to getting what you want.

> They have an additional recourse: file an unfair labor practice with the NLRB and win, as they did here.

And nothing is going to happen as a result. It will be appealed, and the litigation will continue possibly for years.

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>Good Faith is a legalese way of saying "dealing honestly". It would be honest of Google to simply say "No" to every demand.

No it isn't and no it wouldn't. Per the NLRB:

The duty to bargain in good faith is an obligation to participate actively in the deliberations so as to indicate a present intention to find a basis for agreement. This implies both an open mind and a sincere desire to reach an agreement as well as a sincere effort to reach a common ground.

Does it sound to you like going into negotiations with the goal of refusing every proposal and not offering any of your own, i.e. saying no to every demand, meets this criteria?

Yes it does. At dispute here is if this union is even legal in the first place, and who they have power to bargain with if any at all. Both the actual employer and Google dispute the union's ability to bargain with Google at all...

Regardless, "bargaining in good faith" purely means an intention to bargain honestly. If that bargain means "nothing changes" - that satisfies the NLRB according to their own website[1].

Again - there is no legal obligation to accept demands from employees - union or not. A union is not a magic ticket to get whatever you want. Employers are free to reject any demand for any reason. Being an employee does not mean you can force an employer to give you things...

So while the NLRB might be able to ultimately compel Google to come to the table, so to speak, they cannot compel Google to accept demands.

[1] https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/ba...

> At dispute here is if this union is even legal in the first place

Does any reputable legal authority think Google's claims have merit here? They're appealing the court ruling against them, sure, but that looks more like a stalling tactic than something they expect to actually succeed.

> Regardless, "bargaining in good faith" purely means an intention to bargain honestly. If that bargain means "nothing changes" - that satisfies the NLRB according to their own website[1].

Which would be a win for the employees - they're trying to get Google's (unilateral, illegal) changes to their working conditions rolled back.

> A union is not a magic ticket to get whatever you want. Employers are free to reject any demand for any reason. Being an employee does not mean you can force an employer to give you things...

Not true. Employers have obligations, employees have rights, and unionised employees have more rights. Yes, you can't always get everything you want. But you can get some things, such as preventing your employer from unilaterally worsening your working conditions.

Good faith is not about willingness to compromise, give up ground, or change your mind. it is about listening, not lying, and engaging.

The fact that you think employers are legally required to give in to employee demands is truly bizarre.

Even stranger is the fact that you seem to think such a law would be a good thing if it did exist.

Here's a quote from one of my posts on the subject:

"Google is fine to not meet the demands of the union, they must negotiate a contract in good faith."

Care to find a corresponding quote matching what you say I am claiming, namely that I "think employers are legally required to give in to employee demands"?

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