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Comment by nullflux | Hacker News Reader

Have these types of things happened on Kickstarter before (or has anyone attempted to just completely game the system?) What types of recourse do investors have? Any?

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They are not investing, they are buying.

There is no guarantee that any kickstarter project will ever get finished.

It's up to the backers to decide if they think the project owner is capable of finishing the project.

it isn't investing /or/ buying; you're literally just giving money

> Have these types of things happened on Kickstarter before

What exactly do you mean "these types of things"? People using free tools to create something other people find valuable?

Here's some snake oil for $270,000:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1047510073/remee-the-rem...

Kickstarter isn't particularly thorough about vetting technical projects.

Yeah, kickstarter just says it's up to the backers to do their own research into the project owners.

There are a lot of lucid dreaming devices, and people report varying degrees of success with them, but I've never heard that any of them are completely worthless. Is there any particular reason why Remee wouldn't work?

> Is there any particular reason why Remee wouldn't work?

There is no reason it wouldn't work in the same way that there is no reason that there couldn't be a giant teacup orbiting the Earth.

Ok so you're a realist, fine. But I'm curious, do you not think lucid dreaming is real? Or do you just not think it can be triggered with flashing lights?

I've had many lucid dreams, non of them involved flashing lights in my face. More importantly of all the methods to induce lucid dreams, flashing lights in your eyes isn't among the practices normally used in scientific studies. If it were actually reliably effective, it is highly likely it would be used in studies as a reliable method of initiating lucid dreams.

It has been used in some small studies, like this one: http://www.asdreams.org/journal/articles/laberge5-3.htm

But as far as I know, lucid dreaming in general is not something that is being studied by a very large number of scientists, so we're not likely to find a whole ton of studies like this regardless of how effective it is.

The point is-there are lucid dreaming devices that work, at least partially. Remee seems to be based on similar principles. In theory Remee is an improvement on those devices, addressing a lot of the common complains about existing lucid dreaming technology. But unless I'm missing something (which is why I asked) it seems really odd to claim that an invention that's supposedly an improvement on existing, (partially) functional devices is "snake oil."

So let me rephrase my question. Given that there are existing, functional devices, based on a similar mechanism, and Remee seems to be an improvement on those devices, why exactly does it qualify as snake oil? Which of my assumptions is wrong?

Lucid dreaming is possible, but not everyone can do it. Of the times I have personally done it, it has been awesome! I achieved it with the reality check method, but I think a device would make it a lot easier..

There is an interesting new iOs app called Dream:on (it's free too) that uses the accelerometer to determine when you are in likely in a REM state, and then it plays audio cues to help get you into a lucid state, instead of flashing lights like the remee.

I haven't had the bed to myself to try it out yet - my wife is a very light sleeper - but in theory both of these devices could work, but don't expect it to happen immediately or every night.. and you may need to incorporate a reality check method too, the device cue would just make it easier to do.

There does seem to be some evidence that this isn't just snake oil:

http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/dreaming/Lucidity%20Institut...

I remain skeptical, but it's certainly plausible. More than most ACM flim flam.

hey wait isn't that my site?

huh

well, thanks for linking me

Kickstarter doesn't vet projects at all:

http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/backing%20a%20project#Wh...

They also don't do any checking to validate that the person behind a project is who they claim to be:

http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/backing%20a%20project#Ho...

Their entire fraud prevention program can be summed up in two words: caveat emptor.

I've heard of non-delivered projects. So far, I don't know of any big money high profile ones, but I'm sure there will be one sooner or later.

Like the other guy said, you're not investing, you're buying. Or maybe donating.

I don't think there's any recourse for a failed project, and I don't think there should be one. If you're thinking about contributing to a Kickstarter project, understand that there are no guarantees and moderate your contribution accordingly.

There is a kickstarter for a game (Echos of Eternia) where the creators are making the game using RPG Maker (a free tool anyone can use). They raised over $26k.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1465600975/echoes-of-ete...

A lot of great games have been made on RPG Maker. To The Moon is the most recent example I can think of. You wouldn't say that a program is worth less because it's written in c, a free language anyone can use.

Where do you draw the line about where you believe people shouldn't raise funds? Are they allowed to use a toolkit like RPG Maker or GameMaker? Are they allowed to use game engines?

The point of making successful games isn't about doing everything from scratch, it's about making something that people want to play.

Even with the OP if (perhaps because of head trauma) people feel they want to play the Ron Paul platformer, they should be free to throw money at it. If the project delivers what it promised and it's not actually infringing on others work, then where's the problem?

I don't mind them using RPG Maker... but I don't understand how they have any investors considering how cliche the project sounds and how terrible their presentation skills are. Possibly the worst pitch I've seen.

> a free tool anyone can use

So, no more gcc, clang, Eclipse, Blender, nasm, or GIMP. Anything built with free tools is not worth supporting. Do you want to let the entire Fortune 500 know they need to close up shop now, or should I?

Here's one funded almost 2 years ago: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/schuyler/lockpicks-by-op...

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