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Comment by elif | Hacker News Reader

After taking an EV on a ~6500 mile road trip a couple months ago, I never want to road trip in a gas car ever again. Highlights:

- by the 2.5-3.5 hour mark between charges, I'm ready for a 25-35 min break and its somewhere nice and not a gas station

- stop anywhere and sleep with air conditioning for free

- never have to use gas station bathroom

- never have to calculate any routes or fuel stops

- also no gas cars drive themselves as well as EVs can yet so driving fatigue is so much better

There were times it felt like I was on my own private train where I got to set the route through national parks, scenic routes, etc and not deal with strangers.

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How are these easier in EVs than in ICE cars?

> - by the 2.5-3.5 hour mark between charges, I'm ready for a 25-35 min break and its somewhere nice and not a gas station

What does that have to do with the power source? You can take breaks anywhere in an ICE vehicle too.

> - never have to use gas station bathroom

Can't you use the same bathrooms in ICE vehicles? Are they EV only? Does your EV include a half-bath?

> - never have to calculate any routes or fuel stops

I don't do that in ICE vehicles; gas stations are so common that I just find one when I need it. Is your EV's range greater? Also, aren't EV chargers harder to find that gas stations?

> not deal with strangers

To each their own, but back to our primate ancestors we are social beings.

> Can't you use the same bathrooms in ICE vehicles? Are they EV only? Does your EV include a half-bath?

No idea if it's right, but I think they are saying that places with EV chargers tend to be nicer than gas stations. And maybe ICE drivers can stop at those places, but are they really going to make an extra stop when they already have to get gas?

I'd point out that this is probably a temporary phenomenon, due to the relative rarity of EVs and their status as luxury items. Once everyone has them and they're cheap, I'll bet the EV charging stations' bathrooms will be just as bad.

I don't agree with your speculation for a couple of reasons, primarily:

- 90% of EV charging is done at home, meaning that even when all cars are EV, there will be an order of magnitude less usage of the public infrastructure.

- EV infrastructure does not require employees on site so it is not beholden to the same 'service center' economic model premised upon selling snacks and becoming defacto grocery stores for impoverished locals.

But also, EV charging stations are purposely located in existing commercial areas like malls, hotels, grocery stores, strip malls, etc. whose bathrooms are supported by businesses with a much bigger reputation to uphold than one whose customer loyalty is fundamentally linked to being 3 cents cheaper than the identical building across the street.

Yeah those points make sense and I hadn't thought of them.

EV chargers tend to be in places you actually want to be, such as shopping centers with decent restaurants and coffee shops. Yes, you absolutely can make two stops in a ICE vehicle - a gas station, then an optional stop to visit a shopping center. But people tend to stay where they stop then get back on the road. It’s not the power source that’s being discussed, it’s where the existing refueling infrastructure exists today. Reality is gas stations exist because gasoline is a noxious toxic pollutant that tends to explosively combust at worst and pollute the soil with benzene at best so you don’t generally mix it with a lot of other use. EV chargers are none of these things, and so can be placed literally anywhere in existing infrastructure like shopping centers and malls.

I agree, I have no issue taking long distance trips in my EV. My cars range is about 5 hours of driving, after which I am more than happy to get out at a charging station with a nice restaurant and eat some food, then drive to my stopping point for the day. I’m not really sure being able to drive 10 hours with a 5 minute stop for gas is a benefit over driving 10 hours with a 25 minute stop for a charge, especially if I do the 5 minute gas refuel then drive to the restaurant with the EV charger to eat for another 25 minutes. That’s 5 minutes of extra time to get gas rather than refueling at the same time.

> You can take breaks anywhere in an ICE vehicle too.

Yea, ADDITIONAL breaks, you also have to take short breaks at gas stations

>Can't you use the same bathrooms in ICE vehicles? Are they EV only? Does your EV include a half-bath?

I am not a lawyer but I do feel comfortable walking into a Marriott bathroom when I am a paying customer for their charging station, but would feel sketchy walking into hotels randomly.

> I just find one when I need it.

You're proving my point here by saying your just find one when you have to. My car just takes me to the ideal one automatically.

> Yea, ADDITIONAL breaks, you also have to take short breaks at gas stations

My mid-size sedan (Kia K5) gets about 400 miles on a full tank, which is larger than the range of most (all?) EVs, which means that I will be stopping less often for less time than an EV driver.

> You're proving my point here by saying your just find one when you have to. My car just takes me to the ideal one automatically.

Gas stations literally line highways. They're naturally on the way to wherever I am going, I don't need to route to them. Charging stations are not.

You make it sound like a dream. Where were you road tripping?

From Atlanta to Vegas to SF, up the coast to Washington, then back east though the middle of the country and back to Atlanta, going through Grand canyon, petrified forest, Yosemite, Shasta, redwood forest, Columbia River gorge, Yellowstone, Badlands, and car camping at some state parks on the way. I think it was 27 states total, 99.9% self driving and zero planning on my part.

Oh, and only one hotel night on the way west, and another hotel night heading back east. The only reason we did that was for showers basically. (We stayed with friends in Oregon for a week)

Which bathrooms were you using instead?

How much charge do you get on these breaks? I assume they aren't charging stations.

Most charging stations are at restaurants or shopping malls. Yes, they are high power charging stations. I usually get 300 or so miles in my bathroom / beverage breaks. A full charge if I’m eating.

That sounds convenient.

It is! That’s why most EV owners look askance at the ICE/hybrid apologists claiming charging is such a horrific burden.

They are all charging and bathroom stops. On the Tesla charging network, you are stopping at: malls, hotels, target, grocery stores, or occasionally restaurants. In the absolute worst case they are at a place like buc-ees or those highway access 'travel hubs' with a food court in the middle of the highway.

I've only had one stop ever where the bathroom was a hassle, it was a 'locked for paying customers', at a mall Starbucks in Arizona.

Yeah, people don't realize that it is actually quite easy. Maybe not better, but also not meaningfully worse in many (not all) cases.

Strangely, the worst cases are often things like day trips. A 250-400 mile day can be harder to plan than a 600+ mile road trip.

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