Tesla is banned from driving schools because of new turn signals
electrek.co
electrek.co
That is some impressive levels of "we know better than you / everyone else" thinking.
The cost seems to be turning into less of an issue - the Model 3 was for a while the best priced EV here (Australia) but now there are several Chinese options that are more affordable for not much less on the feature side, and without any of the dumb stuff like no stalk for turn signals.
If you wanna buy something that's technically behind ~10 years, has less gear and costs more - all the best to you. Just don't be surprised by people make fun of you.
This was, obviously, swiftly changed, and Macs soon had sensible keyboards. I'd be somewhat less certain that Teslas will soon have sensible controls.
https://electrek.co/2023/09/06/tesla-price-increase-controve...
In terms of build quality, I wouldn't exactly say that Tesla have a "premium" product. Even after more than a decade in the mainstream market and impressive sales numbers.
I’m a Mac user but that doesn’t mean I am oblivious about their faults.
Using a more traditional cruise control (lane keep, speed keep etc) and breaking out some of the climate controls as physical buttons are basically the only things I'd change.
Otherwise the cars are basically the perfect expression of a "Car". They're smooth, quiet, quick, reasonably comfortable and inexpensive and behave exactly as you'd expect a modern car to behave.
Oh, I suppose their suspension leaves a little to be desired? Nit picking at that point though.
Summary: Seems like 1 driving instructor decided not to buy a new Tesla for his school. He posted in a group of driving instructors and many agreed.
I guess the headline is technically correct, but it kind of reads like a government ‘banned’ the vehicles.
Also not sure about the logic of the driving instructors. Shouldn’t a difficult to use car that is quite common be a good candidate for a driving school vehicle? Kids whose families have Teslas will pass their driving exam on a car they will never use, then go drive their parent’s Tesla at a lower level of ability in the real world.
Sure, you have to pick one car for any given person to pass a test on, but this whole article seems overblown, and I’m never buying a Tesla as a starting bias.
That's one of(many different) things that bother me about American cars - like who thought this was a good idea??? Was it to save money? Literally everyone else in the world uses a separate amber bulb in the rear to indicate.
But it’s quite clearly different, also thanks to us copying the third break light that existed in the US first.
I've been driving a long time, and this hasn't ever been a problem in my experience. If someone taps the brakes, both lights come on. So the only time there is ambiguity is when a brake light is burned out. Not especially common now that everyone has been switching to LEDs.
And if it takes a couple seconds to blink, something is very wrong with the car.
That is the reason they went out of their way to make an awful turn signal interface?! Yeesh, ok then. There are enough other things I hate about their UX that I won't be buying a Tesla anyway, but if I were on the fence about one these silly turn buttons would be enough to turn me off.
One example on the top of my head: https://maps.app.goo.gl/BFCTELKbJpaqqVW39
I am not against trying new things, it seems quite dangerous. I am not surprised it got banned from driving school. But I am surprised it was allowed my regulators.
When I'm driving straight I can reach the turn signal stalk by extending a couple fingers while still keeping that hand holding the steering wheel with the rest of my fingers.
If I'm in a turn the wheel is rotated, and my hand might no longer be close enough to the stalk to reach it just by extending a couple of fingers. I might have to let go of the wheel with that hand.
If the buttons are on the wheel their position relative to my hand won't change when I turn the wheel, so it should be possible to make wheel based buttons that are equally easy to use and don't require releasing the wheel regardless of whether you are going straight or turning.
I can see though that it might depend on the tightness of the turn. If you are in a tight enough turn that the wheel was turned far enough that you needed to reposition your hands and then you needed to signal I think the stalk would win. With the stalk, (1) it is likely near the new position of your hands so you might be able to reach it without losing your grip, and (2) even if it is not near your hands it is in a fixed position in space relative to you so it is easy to go there.
If they want to get rid of the stalk I wonder if they considered foot switches? I remember they were fairly common up until at least the '60s for high/low beam switches, so foot switches would not be totally new territory.
That being said, making a turn signal a screen button? Unless AI can replace all of this soon, which I think is not the case (and not the case for the 4th year in a row). I think this is NOT a good decision like the ones Apple makes every few years.
It's just making an easy task you need to do harder for no reason in a context where making mistakes can have dire consequences.
Also I still use USB A, headphone jacks, and network jacks regularly on my devices.
Wouldn't it be better to just indicate right when leaving the roundabout, that way no one can get confused?
At least, in Ontario. The provincial police will give you a different answer from municipal police, and I've gotten a different answer still from MoT folks.
In practice, another issue I have seen is that some folks see any use of a signal near a roundabout as an indication that you are trying to "change lanes", which leads to a honk fest and more confusion immediately. So doing the "right thing" approaching or exiting a roundabout can lead to more confusion and dangerous situations than just... not signaling, unfortunately.
To be clear - I can understand why this design is awful more generally. What I don’t understand is the problem it poses specifically in roundabouts since that seems to be the central point of the article.
The article clearly articulates one scenario..
Secondly, my comment was posted before the parent had added a note about roundabout, so my assumption was that the parent had not seen that note from the article that I had copied above.
I actually could see the the lever being harder.
If im going through a roundabout with my hands at 12 and 4, a shifter at 9 seems hard to actuate.
Im guessing that roundabouts in Norway are tighter than im used to, and drivers have to reset their hand position away from the button to ergonomically maintain the turn?
I couldnt see how this detail isnt obvious from the article description, especially to someone who doesnt drive.
So: the signal/indicator lever is in a fixed position which can be pressed when the correct turn/exit comes. But if the buttons are on the steering (I'm assuming 2 buttons, touch or actual doesn't matter), their position changes as the steering is rotating so I will have to take my eyes off the road and see where in the steering is the correct button and then press it. For a right exit/turn, the button may be on right, or left, or top or bottom or anywhere on the steering depending on the amount of steering turn.
This is what makes it hard/inconvenient/dangerous.
For now I think a circular wheel is a better design, but I don't know.
However, the turn signal/indicator button on Yolk steering might be less of an issue, but I feel that it would still be worse than the fixed lever.
This is fine in regular driving situations but very difficult when you have multiple things going on at the same time that require your attention, such as when you are turning in a roundabout.
Normally this is activated with your left hand pushing a stalk up or down and is deeply ingrained in anyone trained in a modern vehicle.
It’s the same issue with touch screen inputs, but in this case it’s safety related and a common and critically used component required for safe operation of the vehicle.
Tesla’s insight about self-driving warranting the removal or rearrangement of input controls is a tad rich considering full self driving has been promised for years and has never been delivered. Back in 2016, Elon Musk claimed that Tesla cars could “drive autonomously with greater safety than a person. Right now.” Now in 2023 they are changing safety equipment for “full self driving” but still haven’t delivered FSD, but I’m sure you know the background.
Hope this is helpful.
On a small roundabout, it's a tighter turn. You might need to keep the wheel turned more than 90°. The left and right signals will be in the wrong order, and it will be confusing to hit the right one at the right time.
Article: "But now some driving schools in Norway are banning new Tesla vehicles"
Kinda got watered down...
If these turn signals are hard to use, that's an argument for teaching them in driving school.
Training requires standards, not exceptions.
Like if the turn signals were hidden on the main touchscreen, under options->settings->turn signals left/right, we would conclude that this is an absolutely idiotic design that shouldn't be allowed on the road, not just say "weird, maybe they should just teach that if it's so hard"?
The problem here is that you might have to use the turn signal mid-turn, and if the buttons are on the wheel it can be really confusing if not downright I possible to operate them when turning. Tesla isn't the first to do this - some Lambos/Ferraris also do this, good luck finding a single owner who doesn't hate it.
But that's not the issue here. These cars are allowed on the road in Norway.
So traffic schools that only teach how to drive cars they like don't seem to serve their students well.