U.S. cities opt to ditch their off-street parking minimums
npr.org
npr.org
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/634461/paved-paradi...
Parking won't fix any of that realistically. You can push minority poverty to the suburbs, which for example is what France does, however it doesn't solve anything about the bombed out look, it merely redistributes the problem to somewhere else. You can gentrify the cities and push poor minorities to the suburbs and inverse how it's arranged in the US now, it will make the suburbs look bombed out - until you fix the minority poverty problem.
we (engineering types) have this terrible habit of declaring that it is One Thing when in reality, complex problems are… complicated. shocking, i know. it isn’t a simple math problem with a one answer. human problems are significantly more chaotic and fractal.
i don’t want to imply that we shouldn’t look at these and add our ideas, only that id love to see us lessen our crutches of “You’re wrong, it’s X!” and recognize that others are probably correct as well.
Immigrants with no particular job in mind look for places where the cost of living is low: they tend to have much worse job prospects than normal, so a minimum wage job in a low cost of living area is better life than double minimum wage in a high cost of living area.
Immigrants often have poor English skills (or whatever the local language is). They often are used to food not common in the country. So if they can find a community of other immigrants that means people they can comfortably talk to, and also makes it more likely that someone can figure out the process of getting food they like into local stores.
There is very little mixed use. Majority of the city is zoned single family. The only reason there are no parking minimums is because the California changed that law. It has nothing to do with expanded immigration. LA, despite the immigration, is in massive need of a zoning overhaul to build a vibrant city. Very little is walkable, it is very car-centric, and the zoning is the strong opposition to all of this.
Also, "illegal immigrant" is the term. No human being is inherently illegal.
You seriously think each person who is here illegally is renting or owning their own unit of housing?
The country is not full. But the places with jobs have more renters than rentable units.. which is why a 2br costs $3k a month.
You got 2 out of 3 points completely wrong, and your other was a pedantic point about wording. You should probably slow down and think before discussing this subject.
Any car being used will need >1 space at all times: one at home and one wherever it's being parked when its driver has gone somewhere.
If you have <=1 space per car, the car is either being unused or it's parking illegally sometimes.
We need far more parking spaces per car in LA once we consider the millions of people who are driving in the city and live outside of it.
As far as housing, we'd have a 100% fully housed population with <1 house per person because a large percentage of people live with one or more people.
Actually, those numbers are a problem on their face. They're an illustration of why cars, and societies that are structured around enabling automobile transit as the primary (or even sole) means of transit, are inherently unsustainable and inefficient.
Note that the above is about land area. Housing units are often stacked vertically, while car parking rarely stacked.
Where it is not stacked, it’s obviously not that terribly valuable.
Of course places where stacked parking is even a thought are also places where density is high enough that it isn't hard to run a great transit system and so there is less need for parking at all.
And that doesn't cover opportunity cost or the knock-on effects of market distortion, or the exponentially higher costs of e.g. parking garages.
This is nearing the square footage of an apartment to house the same number of people. So for any given unit of housing real estate we need an equivalent or greater amount of parking real estate.
When everyone wants to live close together (ie in LA near where they work, socialize, etc. not in middle of Nebraska) that puts a real pressure on space, and drives up the cost for real estate.
Even if you want to increase density by building higher buildings, the cost of those condo/apartment towers now must factor in a parking garage pedestal taking up 1/3 of its height, and so must offices, shopping centers, etc.
I don't think the ratio of parking spaces per car needs to be reduced. Rather it needs to be recognized, and thus reveal the cost of policies that lead to one car per person. If you can reduce the cars per person ratio, you reduce the number of parking spaces required at a 3x rate.
Cities are great because of all the different things you can get to. However cars spread the city out, and in this in turn means you can't do as many things. You can still do a lot, but eventually the distance (distances in cities are measured in time not meters!) is unreasonable and so you can't get someplace in your city. Dense cities enable more things. If you just want to go to walmart - so do everyone else so no problem. However if you have a niche interest you may discover not enough people live within range to support a place for your interest even though across the entire city there are enough people.
How are the cars limiting here? It's quite the opposite - you can have a special interest shop/venue in a cheap mall in some industrial area and get enough customers who can reach you by car. Without the car ubiquity you'd need to get into expensive real estate in the city center to get potential customers and charge them for your rent, which is fine if you are dealing in, say, collectible wines or artisanal Swiss timepieces and no business if you want to sell Gundam models or knitting sullies.
I think the implicit attitude that your comment seems to have of one car per person is the real issue.
Okay yes, but we're not talking about a hypothetical city in a hypothetical world in which there are 3 million people who share 10 cars. We're talking about Los Angeles, which everyone reading this thread knows (or can Google) has, in the real world, close to one registered car per person. We're talking about this in a thread about parking minimums in the US, which are almost always found in cities that have approximately one car per person, or at least one car per household.
In that sense, no number ever shows anything "by itself" because meaning is always constructed contextually, but at some point we have to all understand context because it's both tedious and Sisyphean to spell everything out every time.
And the more often the car is running, the fewer parking spots you need, so shared cars help here too.
But neither would beat a well organized hierarchical and capillary mas-transit.
An interesting metric but not definitive and comparable.
Don't fool yourselves. There are many ways to reduce housing costs and increase housing supply.
Reducing parking spots is lame.
It seems somewhat obvious that you may need more parking spaces than cars since they move to different places throughout the day.
The question people are asking is how can cities make it easier both for people to live in them as well as move around them without needing a car to do so. By removing parking minimums, it implies that people will have a harder time driving, which will entice them to use other means to get around. But, the big issue is that cities also need to invest in those other means of getting around. That means making micro-mobility easier with protected infrastructure, more bus service, more light-rail, etc. LA had a light rail service until GM, Standard Oil, and Firestone Tire organized a shell company to buy out the system and eventually tear it out. They did the same thing to the Key System in the East Bay of the Bay Area. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_City_Lines
Now reducing parking spaces per car might put pressure to reduce cars per person, or implement alternatives to allow fewer cars per person, which would actually improve land usage.
The issue isn't parking spots, the issue is that construction has had 0 efficiency gains in the last 50 year. Its cheaper to produce a car, grow food, produce computer chips, etc. Its not cheaper to build a building or a parking structure. Make it cheaper to build and it will solve house prices. And its not raw materials that make it expensive. There is no automation. We still pour concrete and frame buildings that same way we did 50 years ago.
I'm sure we could thrown up a hunk of concrete and rebar in the middle of nowhere in area with no environmental regs real cheap, especially if only care if it stands until the check clears.
I have, I've lived in such a place. I walked to work, about half an hour each way. It was quite pleasant.
To fix this we should bulldoze things and build more room for my car!
I have to be able to park my car! What else could I possibly do instead?!
Although it should be unnecessary to point it out, I would nevertheless say this "3 park space for car" is equal to "there are 3 spot for you to stand".
Here's a map from 2015: https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2015/11/18/a-map-of-citi...
And one updated as of 2021: https://parkingreform.org/resources/mandates-map/
> Austin removed parking requirements for its downtown area a decade ago
Here’s an article from 2024 :) https://www.npr.org/2024/01/02/1221366173/u-s-cities-drop-pa...
Oregon sounds like it is setting a pace, I’m glad Austin managed to end single family zoning last year alongside it. I hope Seattle, and every single other major city government in the US will manage to one day remove citywide parking mandates alongside the unusually car dependent laggards in Austin.
Yet every public transit measure is jet with the same tired dogma of “it’ll raise our taxes” or “it will run at a loss”. Street parking tons at a loss. Why is this never brought up?
Significant money is spent by the likes of the remaining Koch brothers to fight public transit infrastructure in every city.
Yet taking drivers off the road will make driving better and faster.
The shortsightedness of this is bewildering.
Parking minimums are a start, particularly for building more affordable housing but it’s barely scratching the surface and even this small gesture will often be met with fierce opposition.
You know who wants tons of parking spots? Those people with their Suburbans and 6 kids who only come downtown for a sports game once every 3 months but complain about how scary and stressful being downtown is.
If you want a concrete example of this- when Austin caused Uber/Lyft to exit the market in 2016 (iirc) based on them "not fingerprinting drivers" one of the big arguments for letting them leave from one of (or the most) important council members was some comment along the lines of, "Well I've never needed an Uber/Lyft before in my life. Why can't you use cabs?" Ironically this person lives in Clarksville (or Tarrytown) which is one of the most expensive suburbs right outside of downtown and they probably never NEED an Uber. I bartended back in 2016 when this was going on and it SUCKED when they left. We had already gotten them into Austin WAY later than most other cities and it finally felt like I could travel around without a headache and the bullshit that yellow cabs bring with it ("Sorry sir, my credit card is not working tonight! Cash only but we're here already, so you must find ATM!")
People who actually go out and do things and didn't want to have to go back to cabs not showing up, potentially getting a dwi/dui, etc were angry beyond belief at the council.
https://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/news/2016-05-14/dear-m...
I rode BART out of Oakland for years. I don’t agree with NIMBYs but it’s not like they are making it up.
I assure you, it is indeed full of insane people, homeless, the trains are nasty and smell like urine, frequently break down or get stopped because people regularly suicide themselves on the tracks. I’m sure in Asian countries the trains are fantastic but here people aren’t adults and ruin it for everyone.
Not sure why you would turn an obviously systemic problem into one of personal responsibility. Do you think there are no mentally disabled or homeless people in other countries?
This attitude seems startlingly common in the US. It's like the pessimistic side of American Exceptionalism - "This problem, which many other countries have tackled successfully, cannot be fixed here".
Because statistically that’s very true almost everywhere in America. Even flagship cities like NYC have pathetic trains/subways compared to Europe/Asia and 90% of the population has never been that far abroad to see what’s possible. I’ve tried the express busses and “train”(can you call it that with only two cars!) in Austin and gave up because they waste much more time and are less comfortable than driving. Never saw rich professionals on them, but plenty of mentally ill, drug addicted, and unbathed(not that we should avoid the homeless as much as we do now) persons.
Nobody said addicts, etc aren't on trains. I said people think that is who is only on it. My software engineer dad-friends absolutely took the train every single day and so did a TON of people who worked downtown. They constantly complained that the trains were full and I remember them changing schedules based on how full they were.
They all said they took the train because it was faster and they didn't have to sit in traffic.
I've also taken tons of buses. I lived off the drag and worked on 2nd. I always took a bus by UT down Congress to get to downtown. A bus is a bus. Every city bus has bus issues like you mentioned. Yawn. It's even worse here in Denver.
My family takes transit all the time; I have 3 teens old enough to get their licenses and none of them have put much effort into learning how to drive because they can get around well enough using transit.
If you talk to our Baby Boomer neighbors, though, you'd think that the second you step foot on a bus or train you'll immediately be assaulted by violent junkies. We do have a big unhoused problem here (like everywhere) but my neighbors seem to think transit is only for the poor; it's sad, really, as many of them are getting to the age where they really shouldn't be driving.
But really, your whole life is sustained by providers driving. Taxes in the city comes from humans being able to physically move their bodies to the right location.
I mean, wouldn't it be ideal to get all the benefits of a complex industrial society without a complex industry? It sure would.
because the only way to get around in a city is by driving, right?
In an extreme case, imagine that your typical, currently congested highway gained another 6 lanes in each direction, and we raise speed limits to 100 mph. First, the right of way is now way bigger, so we need to wreck a lot of buildings for this infrastructure. It makes being able to travel near that highway really nice for a while: Minimal congestion! A straight out windfall by people owning land near it. But that also means that the area redevelops, as farmland that was in the middle of nowhere is now a reasonable commute downtown! But as the development continues, the highway will fill up. And since downtown streets were not changed, it's the area downtown near the highway that is now a congested mess, as the limitation is getting from there to buildings.
And again, a subsidy for you can be a harm for me: If every street is 8 lanes wide, it's very hard to cross. Every pedestrian crossing added is also infrastructure, but it slows down traffic. Every bit of lawn you use is another bit of distance I have to wade through to get to my destination, vs an area with the same number of houses, but without lawns.
One can like one tradeoff more than the other, but the fact that infrastructure means subsidy, and that urbanism choices are picking some people's interests over others is just factual.
You do have a point.
But, do you think cities prosper in spite of this subsidy? It seems like an investment that pays off in second error effects. I mean, why aren't cities without infrastructure growing like mad? Because it's not possible and cities with infrastructure outcompete them.
Only way to make this work is if you outright ban infrastructure and then make competition impossible in that domain.
> There are some remarkable things to note right off the top. When we added up the replacement cost of all of the city's infrastructure—an expense we would anticipate them cumulatively experiencing roughly once a generation—it came to $32 billion. When we added up the entire tax base of the city, all of the private wealth sustained by that infrastructure, it came to just $16 billion. This is fatal.
> It's obvious to me why this is fatal, but for those of you for whom it is less clear, let me elaborate.
> The median house in Lafayette costs roughly $150,000. A family living in this house would currently pay about $1,500 per year in taxes to the local government of which 10%, approximately $150, goes to maintenance of infrastructure (more is paid to the schools and regional government). A fraction of that $150—it varies by year—is spent on actual pavement.
> To maintain just the roads and drainage systems that have already been built, the family in that median house would need to have their taxes increase by $3,300 per year. That assumes no new roads are built and existing roadways are not widened or substantively improved. That is $3,300 in additional local taxes just to tread water.
> That does not include underground utilities (sewer and water) or major facilities such as treatment plants, water towers and public buildings. Using ratios we’ve experienced from other communities, it is likely that the total infrastructure revenue gap for that median home is closer to $8,000 per year.
Hint: the cost to build something is not the cost to maintain it.
I don't trust the numbers though.
I've noticed in my area that companies congregate near their nexus. Attorneys will get an office near the tribunal, accountants near the IRS building, etc. Also, big companies will set their headquarters in the state capital but earn money from all over the place.
This makes it seem like the capital "makes" all the money though it's actually just fiscally declared in that place.
I suspect that chart shows the same thing. Eg. perhaps the gutters may not be covered from the home tax, but that person goes to work someplace, spends money elsewhere and maybe has a company registered elsewhere in the city.
Though, I do agree that overinvesting may happen for infrastructure. I don't buy it though that, for example, suburbs are inherently a subsidy.
Parking minimums are one of those things that are a huge PITA when you hit edge cases but when you go to city council meetings residents and business owners ask for more and cheaper parking because it draws in business and keeps street parking available for residents.
You can't remove parking in isolation, I genuinely wish you could. You have to fix the reason people want it in the first place. And high density public transportation is unfortunately a double-edged sword because it means you need a government blessing to make an area a new hot spot and drives business and residential rents way up in the spots people can get to easily.
This is both blindingly obvious and incredibly frequently overlooked.
Here's the 5-step plan for improving our city:
1. Remove parking spots.
2-5. We'll figure it out later; I promise.What happened? People stopped going to the small shops in the old downtown and went to the mall instead (free parking). The small shops slowly all died off and the old charming downtown is a boarded up ghost town. Yeah, great first step.
Apparently not that much, since that's the point of the article.
> If you let the free market decide the answer will be "a lot"
I'm sure there will still be a lot of parking, but at least it will be
1. Allocated more optimally in space (businesses who don't need it won't build it)
2. Paid for by those who use it, not subsidized by those who don't
3. Built more vertically, thereby taking up less real estate
4. Not in the perfect spot for a bike lane or sidewalkFurthermore, semi-urban neighborhoods and alleys will enter a battlefield between tow trucks and illegally parked cars.
Wait, you say it doesn’t end up that way? Strange.
Over time the suburban big-box retailers will lose as fewer people will drive cars.
No, the downtown core will lose when the shopping traffic shifts to the mall as I noted in comment above.
I had a SO whose family owned one of those small shops in the old downtown when parking became restricted, so I've seen first hand what happens to downtowns when parking goes away (all those shops are gone now).
The “modern city” or at least the US’s version of a “modern city” is the first time humans have ever lived so far apart at such scale. Enabled only because the car has conditioned so many people to think that driving 30mins to get anywhere interesting is “normal” or “natural”.
More seriously though I do think there are benefits to city living if that's a lifestyle you want, but saving money is almost never one of them unless you have a job where you can make a LOT more living in the city, which sort of by definition means you're not going to be working remotely.
You haven't specified where you live, but from the details you've written, we can narrow it down far enough to safely conclude that you're not living in a place that's designed to support a car-free lifestyle.
I have lived for over fifteen years without a car. Not only do I not miss it, but I'd pay to be able to live like this. I can rent a car whenever I need it (something like once or twice a year) and the total annual cost is a fraction of what a monthly car payment would be almost anywhere in the country: gas, financing, repairs, fees, other expenses, etc. all add up to way more than people realize[0].
When you're living in a place that's designed with cars in mind, it's hard to imagine living comfortably without it, but when you're living in a place that's designed for other means of transportation, it's hard to imagine ever going back to cars.
[0] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/10/07/business/car-...
Being born in a place is a lottery with random chance deciding the rules for you. Sure, as an adult, you can potentially choose to leave for the less green pasture and live in an urban environment of city designed for other means of transpo if you're one that doesn't mind moving away from their entire familial support structure. Not say it can't be done, but people just assume these decisions are something people are willing to make just because they did. It's nonsensical.
Nobody in this subthread is saying anything to that effect. This thread was prompted by someone asking why anyone would want to live in a [car-free] urban environment in the first place. The ability to do so is implied by the question, not something being prescribed by edict.
Do you have on-demand car sharing in your city? Like Zipcar or similar? You could go on a heck of a lot of hardware store trips in one of these cars for the price of a car payment + parking + insurance + taxes + maintenance.
I think you're replying to the wrong person. I do use Zipcar on the rare occasion that I need a car. It's way cheaper than car ownership (not even including parking).
I love how those not wanting the city life is just looked down upon by those that are. But that's okay, I think those that live in the city are kind of just weird for similarly petty things
[0] https://www.redfin.com/MN/Minneapolis/1235-Yale-Pl-55403/uni...
[1] https://www.redfin.com/MN/Minneapolis/1920-S-1st-St-55454/un...
[2] https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/222-2nd-St...
[3] https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/100-3rd-Av...
[4] https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1420-E-Pine-St-UNIT-E310-...
Okay, so there are 10 buildings (out of several thousand) with woodworking in Minneapolis, but how many of them also support what my spouse likes to do?
This is a case where you don't want it in the building, which gets us to the "there's not enough space within a 5 minute walk for a wide range of `want to do's."
And if this was true, why would it have to be? We shouldn't lock ourselves into that kind of world. There's no reason that people shouldn't be able to have access to workspaces just because they don't want to live in unsustainable car centric areas.
I've lived in a high-rise in a city and on acres in a rural area. I vastly prefer the latter. Right now, I live on about 1/5 acre in the edge of a proper city, which is a pretty good compromise to get the kids what will benefit them and still have some space and not have neighbors right up my ass every time I turn around.
I think this is obviously the crux of the issue. It depends on what you do and what your love. I would be renting a car/truck 2-3x a week based on my interests and passions.
I would like not having to drive to work, but would rather give up those 1.5 hours a day than everything else my vehicle lets me do.
that said, i support letting people chose for themselves.
I love having a car. It gives me freedom and flexibility. It enables me to do the hobbies I like. It even gives me more career options and a broader range of housing options.
Try $1000/mo on average:
* https://money.com/owning-new-car-cost-total-2023/
If you're making >$100K that may not sound like that much, but the average/median US salary is lower.
(That probably doesn't include externalities either: health, climate change, commute times when you do have to go into the office, etc.)
Cars can be convenient, but it'd be better if they were option for living your life rather than a necessity.
And even using the $1k/mo number, you're still paying thousands more in rent to save that.
You can also get higher payments with money down if you have no to low credit ratings. Been there, done that. You play the game using the online calculators that dealers provide on how much your payment can change based on credit score and down payment, and the credit score will dramatically change compared to the down payment.
The average monthly payment for a used car is $500/mo, and $700/mo for a new car:
* https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/auto-loans/average-...
Then add maintenance, insurance, depreciation, fuel. And that's just the stuff that shows up on a spreadsheet (of which depreciation most folks don't really think about).
Your balance sheet would factor in only your interest payments and depreciation, the principal on your loan is irrelevant there because it's being realized as equity.
The average monthly payment for a used car being $500 does not mean that somebody on a low income has to pay $500 to own a car. I'd imagine that the average price paid for a cup of coffee is around $5, but that doesn't mean that that's what coffe costs. It just means that a lot of people pay way more than neccessary for coffee. Similarly- lots of people drive cars that are bigger, faster, newer, more luxurious, and more capable then necessary.
The bare minimum cost to own a vehicle is not $500 a month by any means- my 5000 dollar car has lasted me 6 years now as an example. Even if we consider it is now worth half of it's original value, that comes in at about $70 a month in depreciation. Hardly unaffordable
Somehow poor people can afford these cars that cost way more than they make.
Average isn't a very interesting number here. I know a guy with a $15K/month car payment, I'm sure people like him push the average up.
If you're trying to save money, don't go for average. Buy a cheap used car, ideally in cash, and your operating costs will be minimal.
The sky is the limit how much you can spend on a car if you wanted to splurge(waste), but you can also a fully functional car for very cheap if you care to save money.
> it'd be better if they were option for living your life rather than a necessity
I totally agree with that. I 100% support other people having the option to own or not own a car and accept the tradeoffs that result from their choice.
If you're rich and money is no object, do what makes you happy.
But if money is tight enough that you care about cost, it is very silly to look into an expensive new car. Buy an older efficient Honda/Mazda/Toyota for less than $10K, insurance will be cheaper, operating costs very low.
You must have one of those magical cars that runs on air, never needs to be filled up, never needs to be taxed, never needs to be insured and never breaks down. Wish I could have one of those cars.
In the meantime I’ll settle for using my feet and my bike. Never needed to fill them up with fuel, pay insurance, or tax. And my feet, at least, have never broken down.
All these numbers are from 2019.
Without car we pay about 300 euros per month for all transport needs, an extra 100 euros per month are direct subsidies. I would guess we would pay at least 800 euros per month for a car, probably more.
[1] https://newsroom.aaa.com/2023/08/annual-new-car-ownership-co...
The average vehicle on the road is 12 years old.
Probably 20 restaurants, 20 small shops, coffee shops, ups, usps, fedex, hardware stores, museums, parks etc etc all within 10 minutes walk.
It’s nice not having to drive for everyday errands. driving and parking is soul draining and causes suburbs to be ugly, not to mention freeways. Those are ugly as sin.
Having space for your hobbies is nice so if your priority is hobbies that need space living out of the city is nice. If your priority is going out for things it is probably better to live in the city.
That should be up to individuals, not central planners.
Are you sure you live in a suburb?
I was born, raised, lived in many, and will likely die in a city - but I just wanted to chime in to say that not all suburbs are awful.
It might be "nice", but it's not possible without a very restricted definition of "every amenity" and even then there's an assumption that amenities are fungible and you're ignoring efficiency.
If there's a grocery store every five minute walk, it's relatively small, which means that it has a crap selection AND it's expensive to run because it doesn't have any economies of scale. (Compare NYC's bodegas with even a crap Walmart and god help you if you're not the dominant community near your bodega.)
The number of places to eat/drink within a five minute walk is limited and/or they're tiny. Again, crap selection and no economies of scale.
Then consider our musician friends. Do you really think that NYC supports enough instrument stores to have one, let alone a good one, every five minute walk? (Remember, you need guitars, flutes, pianos, etc.)
And, musicians aren't special here - the same is true of any interest, such as books.
A 10min walk/transit window can span 20-40 city blocks depending on the location and transit options.
All of your assertions are plain wrong.
Move those goal posts. The original claim was "easy walking distance I.e 5-10 minutes walk."
> can span 20-40 city blocks
20 NYC blocks is a mile, which is 20 minutes walking.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/average-walking-sp...
> convenient (but high costs) parts of Manhattan.
If it's so efficient and/or desirable, why only a fraction of NYC?
The answer is that those areas are a luxury good, with, as you put it, "high cost".
Note that the streets, which is the whole of "planning for autos", don't have any effect on what's in the streetfronts. And, since the high cost areas were also "planned for autos" ...
You are misinformed. It is only part of NYC and rare in other cities across the US because of the planning which generally supports cars, including rules like the article, parking minimums. That makes it a luxury good. Build more walkable areas then it won't be a luxury anymore.
And even then you might be quite restricted as similar stores seem to clump together.
And stores of a kind clumping together is a suburban phenomenon, not an urban one. You're not usually going to find two hardware stores next to each other in a big city, or two UPS stores. Even fast food, which is almost always "clumped" in the suburbs, gets pretty evenly distributed in cities. A McDonald's will just be on a random corner, not as part of a row next to Burger King and KFC.
I have all of that (except the museum) within 10 minutes walk in a very suburban (almost rural, but still suburb) area.
This myth that you must live in the densest cities (Manhattan or SF) to be able to walk to shops, restaurants and other daily useful things is just a myth.
Walkable suburbs in the US are by far the exception. They are great though!
It’s really nice not to share walls with 4 different neighbors and be able to have a yard and let your kids play outside your house.
Residential density is worse in every way for most of the population.
Actually nearby it’s the street with more car traffic that has the most empty store fronts because everyone hates walking on it.
The main issue with the walkable cities is the housing is expensive.
The reason for that is demand exceeds supply. People love the cities judging by the absurd house prices in them. It’s just that we don’t have enough of them.
A main reason for that is single family zoning and parking minimums.
They want to visit friends, go to a museum, join a sports club, check out a book from the library, go shopping, visit a restaurant - there's way more of those in a city than in the countryside.
Define "small". Here are some examples houses in an urban area with front yards, back yards, and garages (attached to lanes):
* https://www.google.com/maps/place/150+Geoffrey+St,+Toronto,+...
* https://www.google.com/maps/place/70+Jackman+Ave+Toronto,+ON
A little less square footage:
* https://www.google.com/maps/place/125+Hampton+Ave,+Toronto,+...
* https://www.google.com/maps/place/50+Geoffrey+St,+Toronto,+O...
The Oh the Urbanity channel has a video on the (mistaken) idea that "urban living" = Manhattan / Hong Kong apartment blocks, which is certainly not the case:
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCmz-fgp24E
Plenty of that was build pre-WW2 in ways that didn't depend on cars:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcar_suburb
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWsGBRdK2N0&t=1m8s
Suburban design is the worst of both worlds: lacking the density of the urban so infrastructure is inefficient and so is transportation, and basically bulldozing what makes more rural living nice (closeness to nature).
Those are suburbs. There's a park even, and no highrises in sight based on streetview.
We've had about 3 years of (ubiquitous) remote work; that's nowhere near enough to call "a generation", nor to bring about a sea change in attitudes. Even then, this entire time there's been a steady chorus of voices admonishing us that if we think remote work is better, it's just because we're slacking off; we don't recognize the real, important benefits of ad-hoc in-person communication; this is just a fad that will end any day now. Aaaaany day now...
The city's mass-transit is intensely effective, and if you have to grab a car from point A to point B, there's never a taxi far away. It turns out if you don't have parking, a professional driver class can afford to make a living on being ever-moving luxury transit for people (and I bet most cities can rought-out a mass transit solution with a clever combination of buses and closing roads to cars / replacing them with delivery-only vehicle access, otherwise open-walkable).
End result: Nobody has space for a car, lots of demand for public transit, makes it worth building public transit.
Unfortunately, there probably will be transitional years of people fighting for parking spaces at ridiculous prices before the transit gets built.
This is especially true about Austin.
https://www.unjourdeplusaparis.com/en/paris-insolite/photos-...
There needs to be a will to change.
https://www.ceicdata.com/en/france/motor-vehicle-ownership-p...
Overall, the change has been small, and most people still have a car. And the metro network was very advanced by 1939 (unlike some US cities, these lines stayed):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_M%C3%A9tro#/media/File:M...
That's in one of the densest and most famously walkable cities in the world. Most cities in the United States aren't going to be Paris anytime soon, and that's before we consider the dismal state of regional transport (particularly around the West Coast) which was also already extensive in France prior to 2000.
There is just no real basis for claiming that Europe restricted cars prior to building good transit. You might find it in one or two cities, but certainly not most -- in Europe, socialist and communist parties held significant sway until the late '70s in many countries (in a few they've hung on), and pushed for transit the whole time.
America needs to CHOOSE to build transit. The carrot approach hasn't worked, so it's time for the stick.
So do you propose we lift all bans on drunk driving as to make life slightly more enjoyable for a subset of society?
At some level all laws trade off “making life shittier” for some to “make life better” for society. You can argue against particular laws but categorically being against it reduces your argument as asking for anarchism.
With the roads Austin has, public transit is expensive to maintain and slow. Expanding the system won't change that, but only exacerbate the current problems.
Also, far more tax revenue (from making land more productive) makes public transit more affordable for the city.
Not necessarily true. In the situation where infrastructure building is almost impossible, the only net result for this is the pubic transit will become more and more expensive.
If there is a demand for parking spots in an area, dedicated paid parking can be created — based on market forces rather than minimums. This parking is also often more dense and built upwards. It’s a more efficient use of city space.
As is, parking is subsidized by all residents of a city rather than the people who actually consume parking. Much of this space goes unused throughout the day, and the aggregate effect necessarily means sprawl.
Now: If you build a building of this size, you MAY build as many parking spaces as you think you need.
Seems like a strict improvement to me.
Without readily available and reliable public transportation this is just lining developers pockets (because fewer parking spaces needed means more units they can build).
EDIT I am rate-limited so can't reply, but this part:
"If you have 200 cars"
This is only the case if the demand for parking / driving is perfectly inelastic, which would be quite extraordinary. Empirically, when you charge for parking or institute toll roads, traffic tends to fall, in some cases sharply (because many journeys are low value). I repeat: if the parking spaces are still congested, the price should be raised until they're not.
Assuming the number of cars would stay the same is like the lump-of-labour fallacy. Lump of metal fallacy?
Then there's the supply side: guess what, that's not inelastic either! If it's profitable to provide parking, someone will build dedicated facilities for it and charge for their use. This may be an alien concept for some of you, but only because parking minimums cause such oversupply that they can't be run profitably. In cities where parking is priced sanely, it's unremarkable to see this.
"Cars will just overflow into adjacent neighbourhoods" okay, so charge for parking there too, until they don't. Duh.
I don't see why cars should get to sit somewhere rent-free but a human being can't. Urban land is valuable; if you want to occupy it, pay what it costs, ya fuckin welfare queens.
my language is harsh but it's hard not to be when I see so many americans (it's always americans) confidently claiming that life is impossible without free parking. but I live in a city without free parking and things work just fine. I can literally just look out of my window and it disproves all the doomsaying. every commute and trip to the supermarket is uneventful and not ruined in the slightest by a lack of free parking. you pay for parking and it's fine. it's literally just fine. I went to virginia one time, I saw literal acres and acres and acres of empty parking space, oceans of asphalt; nobody seemed to think anything of it but I thought it was mad, like some kind of braindead economic allocation fuckup from a communist country that we'd all laugh about. I wanted to shout: you are being terraformed by asphalt-based lifeforms! why do I have to explain to americans how a free market price mechanism works? on a forum for people to shill their california startups? I shouldn't need to tell you this!
If you have 200 cars and 50 parking spaces there's no price point at which the 200 cars can park simultaneously. The overflow ends up clogging the surrounding neighborhoods, on top of the outcome described by OP.
Edit. @pc86, both points you make are valid but neither addresses or fixes the problem being discussed. They are an interesting, albeit completely parallel discussion.
Yes. If you own a limited resource it's your right to make money from that. I know we like to pretend people making money from things they own is somehow evil but it's how all of civilization has been built and is an objectively good thing.
> If you have 200 cars and 50 parking spaces there's no price point at which the 200 cars can park simultaneously.
No, but is a point where 50 can park simultaneously and nobody who wants to park there and can afford to is denied that ability.
Effectively you'll still have 150 cars that cannot be parked next to the owners' residence, that get dumped on the street elsewhere probably in the next lower cost neighborhood, and with the additional issues OP mentioned.
Put it another way, if you want to solve the housing crisis and I tell you "owners can set whatever price they want for the house to extract maximum value and nobody who can afford that will be denied the house" am I wrong? But did I solve the problem?
That sucks for the people who are denied the ability to park there because they can't afford it though. Telling people that they need to walk miles to get to a doctor or a grocery store and that only the wealthy deserve to have access to 90% of the city doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
There parking minimums drive up housing costs. They’re why that person has to drive longer to get to that place. Perhaps why they need to make a car payment at all.
You can't solve the problem of "I need a car" just by taking away the places people put them at night.
The problem we have is built into the design of our cities from the ground up and it impacts every aspect of how they are structured and used. Eliminating parking spaces while the absolute need for cars continues to exist doesn't solve the problem at all.
This is the kind of move that should be done selectively, and only after alternative options are created, if it's done at all.
There is zero evidence for this. There is evidence for parking minimums raising housing prices.
I’m curious about the overlap between off-street parking minimum requirement advocates and anti-development NIMBYs who don’t believe in supply and demand.
When most people need something, and there is suddenly a much smaller supply of that thing, prices for the now scarce but still needed thing tend to increase. That's basically self-evident.
If you have evidence that shows otherwise please feel free to provide it. I suspect that if examples showing otherwise exist at all they won't be remotely representative of the situation these cities will face.
Yes. We have rising, elastic house and stable, inelastic paid parking prices [1[2]]. Due to these regulations, we cannot substitute limited space away from off-street parking towards e.g. housing.
[1] http://shoup.bol.ucla.edu/PricingParkingByDemand.pdf
[2] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Funnel-plot-for-the-pric...
The idea that developers being responsible for providing adequate parking would mean that we can't have adequate space housing is a new argument, but not a compelling one. Clearly jacking up the prices for on-street parking means we'd have more money and more space for other things, but that doesn't solve the problem of there being too many cars on the road or eliminate the need for people to keep and drive cars.
While the one paper you linked to suggests that higher prices could help reduce the demand for cars and driving, it also explicitly states that price of vehicle ownership is only one of many variables that has an affect those demands. The availability of viable alternatives to car ownership/use is the one being ignored here.
If I will die unless I go to the hospital every week for 6 months for chemo treatment and the only way to get there is by driving, the amount they'll charge me for parking isn't really a factor until it becomes so high that I can't afford to get the treatment I need. The fact that I also can't get to work, the grocery store, the doctor's office, the pharmacy, my kid's school, or the homes of my friends family without a car means that I'm still going to need to own (and still need a place to park) my car even if I could afford to uber my cancer-ridden body to and from the hospital every single week. (this is purely an example, I'm not, to my knowledge, cancer-ridden)
You simply can't solve the problem of people needing to own and park cars by only reducing the number of available parking spaces. Reducing the number of parking spaces is something that should be done only once viable alternatives are established.
On topics like this you can argue from first principles endlessly and never get any closer to the truth. Better to show us some data, I think.
No one is arguing against the idea that eliminating parking requirements increases (in short-run, first-order analysis) the market clearing price of parking spaces.
The contentious part is that the presence of the freedom to build housing without parking requirements (enabling, e.g., housing plus commercial spaces to be built in a space that would otherwise have the same housing plus parking) does nothing to reduce the demand for autos.
Why would it? Without alternatives to cars as a means to get people to where they need to go, people will still require cars. As long as people are required to own and drive cars not having enough available parking does nothing to help reduce the amount of cars being owned/driven. In fact, we know that it increase the number of cars on the road. That's how we end up with statistics like "30% of all traffic in urban areas come from people circling around looking for places to park".
You can't solve the problem of people needing cars by not addressing the reasons people need cars, and only reducing the number of parking spots for the cars people already need.
Because it would both enable and incentivize development patterns where people need cars less.
> Without alternatives to cars as a means to get people to where they need to go, people will still require cars.
Dense mixed-use development puts more of the places people need to go in places that don't require cars to get to them. (It also mass transit to other places more viable.)
Your focussed on alternatives ti cars to get to a fixed set of locations, but a big point of dense mixed-use development is to provide alternative locations.
> You can't solve the problem of people needing cars by not addressing the reasons people need cars
The reason people need cars is that the places they need to be a far away because of development patterns; one of the key features of development patterns that causes this is...the space use created by parking requirements.
As for enabling, nothing stops developers from doing that now. As for incentivizing them, if they can make more money not meeting most people's needs then that's what they'll do. This is also why so many cities have a huge amount of luxury housing available, but a massive lack of affordable housing. What makes developers the most money isn't always what's best for a city.
> Dense mixed-use development puts more of the places people need to go in places that don't require cars to get to them. (It also mass transit to other places more viable.) Your focused on alternatives ti cars to get to a fixed set of locations, but a big point of dense mixed-use development is to provide alternative locations.
I agree with this, but none of these cities are creating mixed-use development or building out their mass transit systems to link them. They're getting rid of parking spaces without any of those things in place.
> The reason people need cars is that the places they need to be a far away because of development patterns; one of the key features of development patterns that causes this is...the space use created by parking requirements.
A reason people need cars is because things are far away. Another reason is that there are no other means to get anywhere else. As long as those things are true, people still need cars. As long as people still need cars, they need places to put them.
The space use created by parking requirements would be a nice problem to solve, but it can't (and shouldn't) be addressed until the requirement of owning cars has been dealt with. When people no longer require cars, we can reduce the amount of space we've set aside for housing them.
Zoning regulations and parking requirements, which in many places exist for for both housing and commercial development, and vastly expabd the footprint of both, often do.
Still, I think it's better to have those costs borne by developers and passed to property owners than have everyone else suffer the negative externalities caused by not having those necessary parking spaces available.
I think we'd agree that ideally, the parking spaces wouldn't be necessary because of good public transportation and city planning, and I think that once those things are in place those parking spaces could be reclaimed and repurposed, I just feel that for as long as the parking spots are needed it's better for the developer to provide for them in their plans.
If they have no place to put them, they won't have them, and if they don't have them, then either (1) they won't live there at all, or (2) they don't actually need them.
> This is the kind of move that should be done selectively
No, having parking requirements should be done selectively, if at all. If there is sufficient market demand, the requirements will be unnecessary to get developers to include them, if not, then the requirements are most often a harmful constraint that limits housing supply.
This is demonstrably false. People still need cars to get to where they need to go, like work, or their doctor's office, or the grocery store. There are no alternatives. Public transportation doesn't get them there. Ubering everywhere is more expensive than owning a car. Until alternatives exist, not having a car isn't an option.
If you've been to cities where there isn't enough street parking to meet demand you'd know that even when people have no place to park their cars they still keep cars. They just go to extremes to find/keep/make parking wherever and whenever they can and often have to spend long periods of time driving on streets/circling blocks to find a spot. They block traffic to wait for someone they think might be leaving soon, they walk great distances to get from where to park to where they need to be, they park in illegal or dangerous places.
There are many negative consequences to this behavior which impact everyone around them, but people can't help but do it because they're left with no alternatives. Examples of this abound. I've seen statistics like 30% of all traffic in urban areas are just people looking for places to park. (some studies have found that number to be as high as 75%!) or that the average amount of time drivers spend per year looking for place to park is 17 hours!
> No, having parking requirements should be done selectively, if at all.
That means the same thing.
> If there is sufficient market demand, the requirements will be unnecessary to get developers to include them
That's not how markets work. If it will make developers more money to not give people the amount of parking they need, then developers will not give people enough parking. All other negative externalities be damned. None of it means there will be fewer cars on the road.
No? They park them outside the city centre. Or they rent them. You're speaking as if Austin is the first city in the world--or even America--to do this.
If you live in an apartment complex inside the city centre, parking outside of it won't help you. If you live in an apartment complex outside of it and there's not enough parking spots to leave your car while you sleep you still have the same problem.
> Or they rent them.
Most people can't afford to uber everywhere. Should the poors not be allowed to go to work or the doctors office?
Austin is only one example, but any city without enough parking to meet demand has these same well-documented problems. Please tell me which cities in America have ditched off-street parking while doing nothing else to reduce people's dependence on cars and had no problems as a result.
Of course it does. You use city transportation systems when in the centre. And you take an Uber or train to your parking lot when you need to drive a bunch.
> Should the poors not be allowed to go to work or the doctors office?
Versus not being able to afford housing?
That's the tradeoff. There is no free lunch. Increasing space dedicated to parking raises the cost of housing. It also reduces density, thereby reducing wealth and increasing transit times.
That's not how it works. Have you ever lived in an area developed without any parking planning? I have, it's miserable.
People will still have the cars because they are necessary for every aspect of life. Making parking difficult does not change that, so they'll still have the car, now it just becomes a neighborhood warzone on where to park and everyone suffers.
The way you change this is not by removing parking, but by removing the need to have a car. Build excellent and affordable public transit first and then.. well there is no step two.
Most people don't really like to drive and don't like car expenses, so if you build excellent public transit a lot of people will give up their cars and the parking problem disappears as a side-effect.
That's not a good situation for anyone except for a very small number of people who will make more money than they have been, and small number of already wealthy people who will find lots of available parking they can easily afford now that they don't have to compete with the poors. Everyone else gets screwed and the problem of people needing cars doesn't change at all.
Right, so now only the most rich can go visit the area (shops, friends).
I know a lot of people have the opinion that only the rich should get to do things but I don't subscribe to that. At least with public street parking the misery is egalitarian, both the Yugo and the Ferrari can circle for hours looking for parking.
Although having enough parking for everyone would be even better.
That's why 90%+ of the people in Singapore use public transportation or carpool. Granted, you would need the public infrastructure for that to be possible. But if you make cars unaffordable for the average person, suddenly there would be A LOT more pressure on local government to get public infrastructure done.
There is a litany of "middlemen"; Drs, Corporations, Hospitals, Insurance, Pharmacies, Drug Companies, marketing, Lawyers ... ALL have a stake in something.
Like it or not, our cities are already built to make cars a necessity and pricing people out of access to the majority of places within a city isn't a solution to the design of public transportation or roads.
How is *not requiring* parking to be provided inducing scarcity artificially?
London for example have buildings which are prohibited of having parking (or getting street permit). Providing an option not pay for parking space when buying an apartment is not that.
While I have a car, and enjoy having one, and have a nice parking space in a heated underground garage, I also work remotely and don't drive all that much. I'm in a privileged position and could afford to uber (within the city anyway).
This is just a bad/non-solution to a very real problem that will do more harm than good.
Parking lots aren't what's keeping people in subdivisions from being miles away from those places. Parking spots aren't what's keeping people in cities from being able to walk to where they're going either. Parking lots are extremely walkable spaces even while being hot and unattractive.
You could get rid of every parking lot in your city and you'd still have highways you can't cross or safely walk/bike along side of, you'd still have housing set miles away from city centers, and you'd still have no access to most places by public transportation. Our cities are built from the ground up with the expectation that people will use cars to get around. That was a mistake, but getting rid of parking spots isn't the cure.
I've been in places like Tokyo where public transportation met all of my needs. We can do it, but you need the infrastructure in place first or you're just hurting people by leaving them with zero alternatives to what you're taking from them.
Two birds, one stone
It'll take a massive increase in public transportation infrastructure, and a long and slow redesign of our cities and how we live to fix the mess the auto-industry has put us in. It's a transition that's long overdue, but the reality of the situation now is that people still need their cars.
Making sure that people have something to fall back on before we take their cars away from them or remove the places they put them at night/charge them should be a priority. What these cities are doing is the opposite of that.
Think for a minute about what it means to be wealthy. Is it having more money? Yes, but... The true meaning of being wealthy is having more options available to you. If some people can park but some people can't park, then by definition it's the wealthy people who can park.
Another way to look at it is, what's the point of accumulating money? It's to buy you more options. Let's say hypothetically that the government gives every individual person a fixed amount of housing, food, a car, and free parking. But it is illegal to trade these commodities in any manner; you are only entitled to exactly your share and no more. In this fantasy world, accumulating money would be meaningless because it doesn't enable you to do any more than your fellow man.
So yes, the fact that once you start restricting driving, then only the wealthy can afford to drive and park - that's a feature, not a bug. It's by design.
The reason people keep buying cars after prices rise 57% in a decade: the extra $10,000 amortized over 10 years is less than living even 1 year near the things you drive to. Things you drive to includes your parking space!
It doesn't make any sense to own a car and live in a dense urban development. What more needs to be said? Live in the suburbs if you have a car.
Fortunately bridge and toll community members are insensitive to these changes. They see no problems with 2 hours of schlepping, $16 of tolls and $25 parking to drink $0.50 of vodka priced at $17 at a downtown bar. If they were sensitive to these issues, that behavior would have ceased much sooner than a pandemic-induced shock to their routines.
That said, I don't see anything wrong with the suburban lifestyle, I am a product of it. Instead of focusing on issues like parking costs, which cities can never beat suburbs at because suburbs have essentially infinite land, cities should fix their education systems, because they can realistically beat suburbs on the concentration of human capital. My community would be far more appreciative of that than bullshit about parking spots.
Public transport can be good but it's never that good. I live in zone 1 (ie very centrally) in London and there are still many journeys where it is quicker and cheaper for me to drive than to take any kind of public transport. This is true for longer journeys (going outside London) especially but surprisingly it's also true for quite a few short journeys (even going a couple of miles) - it depends a lot on the layout of the public transport network and the roads, and this is before considering journeys where I might want to bring bulky or heavy things with me which are basically impossible to do by public transport. I end up driving enough that the cost of car ownership vs short term rentals makes sense in pure economic terms but the convenience difference of ownership vs short-term rental is also pretty big.
Cool. Let's do that, too!
People need to stop being shitty to each other.
> Without readily available and reliable public transportation this is just lining developers pockets (because fewer parking spaces needed means more units they can build).
I don't think this is fair. Fewer parking spaces might mean higher profits for developers on a per-unit basis, but I'd rather them make money and provide more additional housing units that are sorely needed, especially in cities, than build apartment complexes with garages or parking which then necessitate higher taxes and more public spending to support roads, car crashes, and other related externalities.
"But public transit costs money too" yes, just redirect state highway department budgets to transit 1-1 and then you're not spending any more and getting higher ROI.
[EDIT] Incidentally, maybe we shouldn't subsidize truck shipping! But using usage taxes to pay for highways while not shifting the burden such that truck shipping is paying the lion's share of the cost and is no longer (so very much, at least) subsidized, would be making non-commercial drivers subsidize truck shipping (even more than they already are) which subsidy (to some degree) benefits everyone, including non-drivers, which seems like a weird and/or bad move to me.
Rural living would be way more expensive and inconvenient without truck shipping subsidies. Which, maybe making rural living artificially cheap is a good idea and maybe it's not, but that's one big shift that would happen if we made truck shipping pay its way entirely.
[EDIT] For true long-haul, I'm with you, the majority of that's surely only viable because of those subsidies, and we'd be better off pushing that to rail, ship, and barge.
I don’t know how this is the fault of too little parking. Nothing excuses this type of behavior.
Rideshare. Also, this screams market opportunity for paid parking. (Unless, of course, the problem isn’t as consistently dramatic.)
They've also seen ZipCar type services where short-term rental vehicles are just abandoned. Once, I woke up to find a luxury Alfa Romeo sedan that had taken a joy-ride across the border and was abandoned in front of our place.
The main street there dead-ends, and so the highest traffic is from lost motorists vainly attempting to hook up to the freeway.
My parents jealously guard their prime parking spots, I mean insanely: they love to walk but if they need to tote cargo more than 1 yard out of the way, we never hear the end of their moaning, and I live hundreds of miles away. They participate in Neighborhood Watch and won't hesitate to get cars tagged, inspected and towed if someone tries to mess with their "public street parking" spots. (Recently renovated "garage" is full of junk.)
As a holder of a driver's license who hasn't owned a car since 1997, I also never hear the end of their moaning about rude cyclists, oblivious pedestrians, City-sponsored transit lanes, or repainted roads to encourage sharing with pedestrians and multi-modal transport.
Around here, most of the moaning and screaming is directed at light rail, without considering for a moment how it takes drunks and inept drivers off the road and completely out of their way.
You have to take away cars (parking) first so that they start demanding public transportation.
For something to be available it has to be required by building codes.
Old world cities can have great public transit because they were dense long before cars existed and have hundreds of years worth of civil projects designed to get people from A to B.
We better get started right away then, huh.
Most of the housing and most of the population was obliterated in the late-1930s through the mid-1940s, as you might recall. Two-thirds of the city's population had fled before the German invasion started even.
No code requires marble countertops. Yet they get installed because buyers want them.
Cities like Austin have regulated themselves into a housing-cost crisis. It’s almost a miracle that rational economic policy is being given space by voters.
Parking is.
Until parking spaces cost more than apartments do, developers are going to favor building apartments over parking one hundreds times out of one hundred.
And even if this does drive up parking costs to match rents, is that such a bad thing? Why should we legally mandate that developers subsidize parking?
We have an abundance of parking required by law and not enough housing units - removing the requirement should encourage more money to be invested into anything but parking no?
Seems like letting businesses decide whether or not it's worth opening a business with the available parking would cause one of two things to happen:
1. We wind up with the actual correct amount of parking required for a given set of businesses - instead of some arbitrary amount dictated by legislatures decades ago. 2. Everyone is tired of the lack of parking and votes to increase public transit funding.
Once we have apartments with and without parking on the market, we'll see how much more people are willing to pay to get parking, and future developers can build accordingly.
Queens NY has this problem pretty severely. Zoning requires parking past 7 stories in building height, so every building is 7 floors at maximum density with no parking. Residents often find themselves circling their neighborhoods for hours looking for parking. Living without a car and being fully-dependent on public transit absolutely sucks in most of the borough.
I live in small (2,000ish households) New England town with some streets that predate automobiles. Nobody is really space constrained. The housing 3 miles a way is at least half the cost of my town.
The public transportation is poor and it took about 25 years to build less than 3 miles of bike path.
Should my town ditch off-street parking minimums in an attempt to increase housing supplies?
Clearly the answer is no then.
That doesn't make space-constrained Austin's answer an automatic yes either though. The city is very car-dependent. The starting point isn't "take away peoples' ability to have a car". It should be "make it more attractive not to have a car".
Changing parking minimums comes far down that road.
Ironically, I still share your opinion about over regulation, but we can’t ignore the other argument.
"Follow the money" always works.
Builders want (reasonably enough) to increase profit. Marble countertops add a few thousand in cost but now you can sell these as luxury units for tens of thousands more! So it's profitable, so it happens.
Building parking space instead of additional units is not profitable, so it won't happen unless required.
Not all square footage is created equal!
Snow management can be done in other ways but that is a cost analysis exercise.
In snowy areas the piles can grow quite large and take up a sizable amount of parking lot space. These large piles then take considerably longer to melt away than snow in surrounding areas, sometimes lasting well into Spring.
Can you see the design conversations going, "let's provide for practically no parking spots, so we can get less foot traffic and nobody will want to come shop here!"
In areas that support public transit and promote multi-modal, the businesses which thrive there are ones which cater to folks who eschew private vehicles. And that's a distinctly different crowd! So I think it'll work out great.
If the cost to provide (guaranteed, protected) parking spots ends up being higher than people are willing to pay for them, maybe they're not actually worth what we're currently paying for them.
There are very few countries out there that would see such behavior flying, when facing a wealthy developer (it used to be the biggest company in this village/small town) who gives a lot of local work, for just parking spots that are anyway completely hidden under the building.
It didn't help that the urbanism activists in our area seem to consider parking garages to be a tool of the devil and protested any plans to build one in the area. To me they are an ideal compromise/stop-gap solution. They allow you to build dense walkable neighborhoods today even when most people will be driving. And once public transit has improved to the point where less parking is needed, you just have a few buildings to tear down instead of entire areas to redevelop.
Edit: And to be clear I think the "best practices" that most of the country used for the past 50 years to set parking minimums were massively inflated, and created many problems. I'm absolutely in favor of revising them, but I firmly reject swinging around to the other extreme of "to solve the public transit chicken-egg problem, we must make car use intolerable".
This is the original tragedy of the commons though: a bunch of people assuming they can just park on the street. The frustration is the solution. Either build yourself private parking, pay for private parking, or ditch the car. Or enjoy the frustration.
The vast majority of people will choose "(D) None of the above". They'll move out, causing the neighborhood to decay.
So Alice wants to build a high-density housing tower without having to build a ten-story parking structure beneath it, and we prohibit Alice from doing that, even though Bob wants to build a ten-story parking structure right next to it, because we prohibit Bob from doing that.
I feel like these could both be solved in the same way.
We have minimum parking requirements that produce an oversupply of parking, therefore parking is cheap, therefore building parking garages is unprofitable. If you don't mandate them, the cost of parking will increase until building parking garages is profitable, and then people will build parking garages (or have fewer cars, in places where that's practical).
This doesn't even increase costs. Right now someone is paying $3000/month for a $2500 apartment and a $500 parking space. Without the parking requirements you could get a $2500 apartment for $2500 and choose whether you want to pay the extra $500 for the parking space.
Not only that, this would make it cheaper to build more apartments, so then the $2500 apartment drops to $2250 from lower scarcity, which reduces the cost of apartment+parking space as well by not force-allocating a parking space to someone who can do without a car and leaving more for the people who can't.
Bob wants to build it on the next lot over once he sees these new buildings going up and is willing to bet that the new residents will generate demand for parking, and can choose how many stories to make it based on the local demand for parking, which is based on numerous hyper-local conditions that are best evaluated by the owner of that specific lot and not just based on how many housing units are in each building.
Alice is a smart capitalist and will build two apartment buildings instead, maximizing profit from selling the units.
By the time the buildings are completed, the mortgages signed and the people start moving in and fighting for parking, Alice is long gone, moved on to the next project in some other city.
This is the problem parking minimums were intended to help reduce.
Good. Then more people will choose different forms of transportation or internalize their costs. If parking becomes scarce, providing parking will become more profitable and people will pay the actual (enormous) cost of temporary car storage downtown.
Parking becoming difficult and/or expensive pushes patrons to places where that's not the case.
/s
And the 'spend' from people driving in from the suburbs to go shopping will easily be overshadowed by greater economic activity resulting from a denser urban core.
That's not really how it goes. This assumes that if you make it painful for people to do what you don't like (park), they'll stay and live the way you want.
But no, people will simply abandon the area due to inconvenience. The area I mentioned above (previous post) went from a nice affluent residential area to a dilapidated area where only the poor and university students (also poor) lived. Everyone who could afford to leave, left.
Humans will always look for a better solution for themselves unless you impose a complete dictatorship. It is not possible to advance a cause (whether it be less cars or more public transit or better EV support or better bike paths, etc) by simply making the status quo inconvenient. People will simply avoid it.
You advance a cause by making the new alternative actually more attractive, then the majority of people will happily adopt it.
This is what happens, and exactly what happened near here. All neighborhoods within a mile or so of the university require permits for street parking.
But here's the thing, fighting fire with fire does not lead to a nice society. Now it's a huge pain to visit any friends within that zone because they have to shuffle their cars (with resident permits) to the street so guests can park on their driveway to avoid being ticketed. When you fight fire with fire you also get burned. Lose-lose.
We have so many subsidies for cars baked into the system, but hardly anything for other forms of transit, and then we complain endlessly about how expensive transit is to run and have to cut service to make ends meet, which of course discourages people from taking transit.
"Impact fees" are just a way to discourage new development.
Remember who is doing the planning and building. It is a developer who only has a short-term interest in the site. They want to build something, extract the maximum profit per sqft they can, sell it off and move on. They won't be involved by the time everyone moves in and starts living in that area.
You could blame the people moving in that they should've thought of parking before buying, and that's true. But people can be too optimistic when they like a place and just hope it works out. It doesn't work out, then they spend a lot of time driving around hoping to park somewhere. Early in my adult life I lived in an area like that, it was a nightmare.
The developer who decided to build a 6 story (24 apartment) building with just 8 parking spots? Long gone, not their problem.
then they get carried forward as precedent because people hear "eliminate parking minimums" as "eliminate parking spots" and fight against it, but they don't make any sense.
Parking minimums are simply a requirement that if you build an apartment building with N apartments, you need to include a number of parking spots that is a function of N. The idea being that if you're building a number of places for people to live, the vast majority of them (especially in Austin) will need a place to park, and it's not really fair for you to externalize that need onto public streets just so you can make more money by adding more apartments with no parking.
That's the argument anyway, and it makes sense. The counter argument is that it also keeps us as a car-dependent city, and makes it harder to build affordable housing.
I'm not really convinced of the counter argument, at least in Austin. Public transportation (or, basically any transportation) is notoriously bad in Austin, and for decades we've basically had the stance "if you don't build it, they won't come", but that hasn't quite worked out.
Well, since what you have been doing hasn't worked, maybe let's try the other tactic.
Your claim is that 'getting rid of parking' is what is being pushed, when it is getting rid of mandatory, arbitrary parking minimums.
If there is needed parking it will be built because developers don't like building tenancies that don't get sold because no one can live there.
Besides, the argument isn't "let's look at the calculation for required number of spots and tweak it if necessary", it's "let's get rid of parking altogether and pretend like people won't just still drive and park on the street."
I mean, you seem to be adamantly opposed. I assume for good reason (at least in your mind). Why not make an argument that actually relates to the proposal? At least I would give your opinion more weight that way
If anything doing this is a way for cities to implicitly get citizens on board for investing more in public transit. All of the new apartment buildings in the hip parts of town don't have any parking for your cars, so you're forced onto public transportation more, which you might think stinks, so you now care more about voting for infrastructure improvement.
True. But only to a limited extent as long as demand remains significantly higher relative to supply. e.g. if you're moving to a city due to work etc. and and have limited you're much more willing to compromise (use street parking, private lots some distance away etc,).
Nixing parking minimums for businesses in already-walkable, transit-connected downtown cores is overdue, and areas close to that density can easily become new downtown cores when infill is allowed to cover their parking lots.
Nixing parking minimums for downtown apartments, to your point, is a terrible idea (outside the densest areas of NYC at least, where parking minimums are already effectively nil) because most transit systems in the US are designed to bring suburban commuters into the city, so even if said apartment is situated directly above a multi-modal mass transit hub, it might not necessarily connect its residents to much more than a handful of giant parking decks clustered around a freeway.
If they had built 60 parking spaces and let residents park for free, I feel confident there would be at least 50 spots in regular use based on how nearby buildings with larger parking lots are utilized. Since the parking is underground, the most expensive type of parking to build, I also feel confident that rents would be at least 10% and probably 20% higher with "free" parking.
Our transit centers are literally hosted by shopping malls, more often than not, until they are significant enough to be freestanding or independent of such malls. The routes are carefully planned to get people from one major retail center to another; the stops stop in front of stores, restaurants, and venues; it's all quite transparently consumer-focused.
The transit system here would look significantly different if they concentrated on moving workers to places of business. Transit riders work in certain areas which simply aren't served at all by transit. Take call centers, for example: a call center is usually situated in a business park or industrial zone. This will not have bus stops. I worked in a call center where I'd take my bicycle every day to ride the last mile, quite literally.
I regularly negotiate with recruiters about commute distance, and it's always my chore to explain how distance means a different thing to a transit rider: I can ride the train a long ways and it's a short, easy commute; if I need to transfer 2 buses it's a huge pain, 3 hours each way, even if it's 1/3rd of the distance of that single train ride.
Transit systems which serve upper-middle-class workers in downtown hubs do it because those workers find it impractical to park downtown, not because they can't afford private vehicle ownership. I took advantage of Caltrain in the Bay Area, just so I didn't put so many miles on my car.
Transit systems like mine don't actually serve the proletariat nor support our commuting needs; they're fundamentally here to encourage consumerism and stimulate retail economies, and that's how they score such massive subsidies that they hardly even need people to pay fares.
Given that, beyond say SimCity, has anyone developed simulations of how these new regulations / incentives would actually affect housing?
It allows plots of land to be smaller, but is the extra space taken up by housing or businesses? Is the housing single family or high density? How do wider economic trends interact with developers' interest in building/not building? I would think interest rates interact with developers' willingness to build and what they want to build.
Those factors feel very subjective to me.
Not to mention that if a model existed that could accurately predict this, I would eat my hat if the model wasn't immediately bought out by a fintech firm for some absurdly large sum. Being able to accurately predict the housing market is a blank check for printing money.
The results appear to be a full bus, the whole sale replacement of one and 2 story buildings along the bus line and a general consensus in the city that it worked pretty well.
We just approved ending parking minimums and by right auxiliary housing units, read anyone can put in an apartment over their garage, this summer so the jury is out on it as yet city wide.
https://www.planetizen.com/news/2023/11/126192-parking-refor...
Parking spaces are outrageously expensive. By allowing housing to be built without far more parking than is needed, the cost of rent is lower by several hundred dollars (read: $200-$1000) a month because of how expensive land is, and how much land/space is required for cars.
I think this is likely to happen. Also, as a potential customer, when I look at a business, if I see that the parking is going to be a hassle, I will pick another location even if it means it is further away. So this has potential to make the business situation worse as well.
Car free areas also raise objections about accessibility for the disabled. How do you get your wheelchair to the middle of that car free area half a mile from the public transit stop closes to where you want to go.
As for disabled: improvements to walkability and bikeability are also improvements to disabled accessibility in almost all cases. Not all disabilities are visible, and some even preclude driving at all. And when car parking is a hard requirement, there are dedicated disabled-parking zones.
EDIT: "X was built for walkability but Y was built for the car" you always hear this but it's just a lazy BS excuse not to do anything or think critically about the built environment. many of the cities people tout as "obviously this was built to be walkable" used to be clogged with cars (including Paris). it has wide boulevards! and many cities people think "oh this is obviously built for cars so we shouldn't bother" used to be totally walkable and had world-beating public transport (Los Angeles). it's ahistorical, learned helplessness, never backed by any rigorous comparisons, just vibes.
BRT is similarly quick to implement, if a little more expensive. Remove 1 lane of parking from major downtown roads & replace with a painted BRT lane. Order about 50 buses to run in 1 way loops around the downtown area. Have high frequency BRT between the out-of-downtown parking area <-> downtown core.
Either should be doable under 1 year.
The blockers are all political.
The biggest issue with bike infrastructure is that the people responsible for infrastructure genuinely believe this. The end result is usually a scattered bunch of stupidly dangerous "bike lanes" which aren't of use to basically anyone.
You need a separate biking network, which interfaces with car traffic as little as possible. This means you're essentially building "cycling highways" through car-free or car-minimal residential streets. Doing this properly means re-engineering those streets and intersections basically from the ground up, not just putting some paint on a highway gutter.
Citation needed. Maybe a month of actual painting time once you've done all of the planning, but planning the routes and going through all of the approvals and meetings is absolutely not possible in a single month. Not even a single year.
If you bite the bullet and remove parking, better public transit will come. If you never remove parking, you will never have better transit.
By another measure, removing parking mandates is a very immediate success because it lowers rents by several hundred dollars a month: https://www.planetizen.com/news/2023/11/126192-parking-refor...
One would assume you would wheel your wheelchair there. You know, the same way people walk their feet there.
> Car free areas also raise objections about accessibility for the disabled.
What about all the people with disabilities that make driving dangerous or impossible, would love to know how we’re making driving accessible for the blind. There are far more people with disabilities that makes car travel difficult, than there are people for whom direct point-to-point car travel is an absolute necessity (short of someone being rushed to a hospital, I’m not sure what people would need regular, direct, point-to-point car travel).
BTW, I lived in China and Europe for many years and exclusively ride bicycles for a long time, it was not the same experience. If you believe what current US politician is getting you one step closer to that, you are just deluding yourself.
This sounds like a comment from someone who lives in a city and doesn’t get out. There is an incredible, vast, mind-boggling amount of empty space in the US. I have flown and driven across the country many times. City dwellers are occupying a fraction of 1% of the space available.
The idea that we must live in hyper-dense cities is utter nonsense. If you like that lifestyle, great, but it’s not reasonable to force it on everyone else.
Almost all new high rise construction just has a couple of floors of parking garage, and handles it well. I can't see buildings without that being commercially successful, especially since much of the work that attracts people who like downtown is out in the burbs (sometimes not even in the same county).
There is no parking ban being enacted. It is a removal of an arbitrary parking minimum. If they can't sell the properties without it why would they remove parking?
The US has been building a lot of low-quality low-density suburban neighborhoods. They are actively hostile to the people living there, as there are both no amenities within a human distance from your home and there is no space for recreation. Life is constantly being strangled by a forced dependency on car travel.
In cities everything is a stone's throw away, and you can get there either walking or by bike. In rural areas there's plenty of space for outdoor hobbies and for children to play. The suburbs are a worst-of-both-worlds scenario.
They embrace mixed zoning, where homes and apartments mix with low density commercial, even in the same building. You can own a single family house if you need that, walkable to grocery and restaurants. Portland does this at a greater scale and it’s fantastic, unfortunately zoning and public transit won’t fix the other problems the city has.
The idea that we must live between enormously huge parking lots is nonsense. If you like that lifestyle, great, but it’s not reasonable to force it on everyone else.
At the same time, they cry about city centers (with their traditional shopping miles) dying out.
Go figure.
You can't get rid of parking on its own. If there's plenty of mixed-use development around so people can walk/bike/transit to their destination, then things will be fine. If you're getting rid of parking AND the nearest residence is a mile away AND the only way to get around is by car AND you're not building anything new, then yes, it's silly.
Whereas the cost of a bus line usually has as a yearly maintenance/labor a significant portion.
Instead of public transit, cities should encourage Uber/Lyft. Car payments + insurance + gas + repairs/maintenance + parking might be close to $800 - $1000/month for most people. Thats probably just the amount that works for ditching car and just use Uber.
(It is very hard to have a transit system that handles capacity at load and still provides short enough head times as to not be annoying off-peak.)
No way in hell could you get me to agree to give up my car and use rentals/Uber/Lyft for everything. As a home owner, Uber and Lyft would fit my need about 50% of the time, maybe less, as I can’t run to Home Depot to pick up a load of rock/mulch/etc in an Uber. Sure, I could rent one of their trucks, but now I’m paying for an Uber both ways, and the rental truck, just to do a quick run to Home Depot.
I understand this may work for people in densely populated areas. But for the vast majority of everyone in the US, this would not be possible.