Comment by dangus | Hacker News Reader

Comment by dangus | Hacker News Reader

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Induction ranges heat up water faster and use less energy than gas ranges: https://www.treehugger.com/which-more-energy-efficient-cooki...

Since you mentioned that you have backup heating, I assume you don’t live in a very cold climate, in which case a heat pump for your backup heat and water heater is your most efficient lowest cost option, not a gas system.

Part of your gas bill is just paying the gas company for a line. Your bill would be around $10 even if you use 0 gas. So basically having two different bills costs you extra money already.

Then there’s the fact that you can get a solar system and generate your own electricity, which you can’t do with gas. Solar systems can have a payoff period in the 5-10 year range which is very reasonable. If you pair it with an electric car you’re almost never paying a utility or oil company for your fuel needs.

I’m not saying you should run out and retrofit your whole home because that would never pay itself off, but in your climate I would never touch gas in a new build.

People pitching induction always mention that they boil water faster, and it's true. But in my experience with induction, which I admit is not a lot, it seems like that is the only thing it's better at.

Induction is really nice in terms of speed and responsiveness but it's harder to do the tiny adjustments that you can do with gas because the induction is digital rather than analog.

Tiny adjustments is a nice way of saying you avoid wild variations spatially and temporally when you use gas.

I mean, I feel like induction is less precise, but I suspect my cooking has actually improved as it stops me doing silly things with gas.

Totally agree, thank you for the balanced response. Most builders where I live install gas by default. I may have considered induction if I was building from scratch, but it’s really not worth it for us right now. Especially knowing the sources of our electricity at the moment.

If somebody installs something that requires a fee and extra connection when building with something semi-permanent like house appliances, kind of makes me think there is some sort of kickback scheme for them to do so.

Having gas appliances where I live is seen as a liability, as you have yet another maintenance item, and it contributes negatively to indoor air, so you have to have much more care regarding air handling in your areas where it is used. (unsurprisingly, demand for gas and gas appliances has plummeted ever since Russia started with their fuckery so people have been converting in droves as well.)

That’s another great point: no worries about CO or gas leaks/explosions with an all-electric house.

> I assume you don’t live in a very cold climate, in which case a heat pump for your backup heat

Like OP, I also live in South Carolina. My primary heat is a modern, efficient electric heat pump. When it’s cold enough outside that the heat pump is no longer more efficient than gas (maybe 8-12 weeks/yr where I am), the system switches fuel sources and runs a natural gas furnace instead.

Heating up water quickly is almost never a use case. It is not on the critical path for optimizations either. Unless you subsist on boiling noodles when you’re late for a meeting.

I use an electric kettle for this.

Exactly. Talking how fast to boil water is pretty much useless. Tell me how to actually cook on induction like I do with gas.

The same, only without giving money to Russia.

Electric kettles are even quicker at heating up water and use less power to do so. They are also cheap and can last for decades if taken care of reasonably well.

> Heating up water quickly is almost never a use case.

It'd be helpful for my household for hot water for coffee and tea, and it'd also help us for heating up some extra water for grits or risotto when they need more.

Also, isn't boiling water just the measurable outcome of the test but what matters is that the pot is coming to temp sooner? Pots and pans heating up more quickly is helpful all the time.

Electric kettles are great for heating water quickly.

Pans coming to temp sooner would be useful if the gap was measured in large units of time but it isn’t. I care more about the properties of the pan and fire more. For instance cast iron pan is used to hold a lot of heat but isn’t very reactive. A copper pan can heat up quickly but more importantly it can change temps quickly. This is known as reactivity.

For instance maybe I want to sear a pork chop on high heat and then drop the burner and toss in butter and herbs. I need reaction (in this case the pan cooling quickly) for this basic technique or else I have burned my butter.

Its like having a car with outrageous acceleration. In the case of a car you are wildly careening all over the road doing cruisin usa wheelies backflips barrelrolls and all. In a pan it means scorched butter and half cooked bacon compared to burnt bacon on the same pan.

But the main function of any stove is to heat things up. Induction can simply do that faster. Boiling water is just an easy way to measure it

I guess you don’t cook? The main function of a stove is to work with your pans/etc to create the heat you desire. Different applications have different requirements. I may use a cast iron pan to store a lot of heat and release it over some time. I may have another where I want to change temperatures in the pan quickly, which is far more common for me.

For example I may use high heat to sear meat and then drop the heat to add butter and herbs and then use the pan drippings to make a sauce which requires intense heating to deglaze and flambé to enhance flavor and then reduce heat quickly to mount the sauce. Copper is the best material for this and it doesn’t work with induction. High quality steel just doesn’t perform.

To me, this sounds like an argument largely built around the idea that you don't want to learn how to use a new product. Many people have convinced themselves they can't adapt, and I think this follows from the marketing ploys described in the article.

You're downvoted because people who aren't enthusiasts just don't have the experience to understand.

It's like the EU ban[0] on lead paint. Fine artists said "wait but what about Flake white? It's a critical paint! Nothing else compares! We know how to use it safely!" And the response was "Just substitute Titanium white. It's brighter anyway!" But Ti is absolutely not a substitute. It's like telling sculptors to substitute plaster for marble.

[0]I can't recall if the ban was lifted. I live in the US.

EDIT: Don't take my word for it. Here's Michael Harding on the subject, he makes paints that are among the very very best available:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G1pXT06HXX0

https://www.lucillesmithson.com/single-post/2016/05/06/in-co...

This point is making the opposite case that you think it is though: the artists are basically a tiny population that benefits from keeping lead paint legal while the larger population suffers.

When it heats it faster, there is less loss into the environment before all of it gets up to the required temperature. Efficiency gains is _always_ the desired optimization when you look at what new energy policies are trying to do.

Main thing induction seems actually worse for is being able to lift the pan above cooking surface and differentially heat different parts of the pan, particularly useful for Chinese/wok cooking.

I like this for making eggs too. And lots of things.

Seems to be a function available in high quality cooktops? Here, called ProfessionalMode: https://www.vzug.com/ch/en/products/kitchen/cooktops/inducti...

Making spaghetti/tortellini/noodles, coffee, malt-o-meal, oatmeal, etc seems common enough for most to not be a "almost never use case". At least on stoves I've seen.

Do they make them without glass tops?

I had my glass stove top shatter. Turns out that is the only thing they don’t warranty. I did not opt for the extended warranty on the next stove…

Also, apparently induction stoves require special cookware

So you just throw out all your pots?

While I can make no comment about your pots, cast iron, and many types of stainless steel are compatible, so any pots purchased recently should work. What I can say is it turns out all my pots worked and I didn't have to repurchase any when I got my induction stove. And it was worth it. Induction is better than gas!

You can purchase copper pots and pans right now and they won't work still, it's not the time of purchase but the material. Non-ferrous materials won't work with induction. Copper, aluminum, clay, stone, glass etc. won't work no matter when purchased.

No? Where did you get such a ridiculous idea?

First google

https://www.neff.com.au/service/support/induction-cooktops/w....

Well that’s flat-out wrong, and stupid to boot.

Aluminum doesn’t work, but any cast iron or stainless steel should be fine. I don’t think I even own any aluminum pans.

We have a couple dozen pots/pans, collected from merging two households and a few decades of collecting pots/pans as needed.

So far we found one that doesn't work.

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