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Comment by Dinux | Hacker News Reader

Sofar I've owned 4 Tesla cars and never had any serious issues that were not addressed immediately. My current Model Y had a cracked roof, they replaced the glass within a couple or hours. Here in The Netherlands inspections are mandatory for all cars every 1/2 years. I've noticed the tires may not be as durable as they should be but no idea how they stack up against another EV.

Anything you use and use a lot needs maintenance, especially if you rely on it, that goes for you're electric toothbrush as wel as your car. Its a utopica to think EVs somehow need less upkeep.

Sure build quality can be improved here and there, and over the last 4 years I have seen Tesla's cars become better. To me regular OTA updates, up-to-date map, apps, an actual working charging network and range are more important than having all the panels aligned withing a couple of milimeters.

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But ... why ? Why did you have 4 Teslas in ~10 years ?

I'm really curious, why are you buying an electric car in the first place ?

Cause it's sure as hell not for the sake of saving the planet.

Probably the same reason people go through a BMW every few years: leasing cars so you are always driving new cars.

Probably this, yeah. Lease cars as part of your work comp are relatively common in the tech sector here.

Which is nice for us middle earners since we get those almost new models a lot cheaper.

Cars coming back from lwasing, if bought with a new warranty, are great value. Especially after Covid, those 2020/2021 model years tend to have incredible low millage.

For the same reason, it's also nice for top earners with a healthy attitude towards cars.

Why is it unhealthy for people who have the discretionary income to want to spend it on newer, higher featured cars? Seems like a simple preference.

This system is overall so nice for everyone involved.

Middle earners drive new cars. Those cars are regularly i spected and repaired. Then sold. Obviously your milage might vary (some sales representatives drive a lot every day), but often those cars are nice.

>Lease cars as part of your work comp are relatively common in the tech sector here.

It's not treated as income by the tax authorities? If so, I'd rather have them hand me cash instead so I can get the car I want, and won't be out of a car when I'm laid off/quit.

In Belgium and Luxembourg, it's considered as taxable benefit and the amount is based on the type of car.

You usually end up paying 200-300 €/month as tax directly deduced from your salary but for that amount you have a new car with all the servicing included, even tires.

A few years ago, it was part of the standard salary package for many companies in IT so you weren't really without a car when leaving.

Some places where strict on the kind of car you can have (small cars for junior, Mercedes for management) but other places just provided you with a monthly budget so you could get whatever you want. You could also pay the difference to have a better car.

Same for the Netherlands as this is happening for me

> why are you buying an electric car in the first place

When you compare the current Model 3 feature-wise to most other brands, it's a no brainer. You need to fork out a lot more than 50k to get the assist and safety features, leather seats, seat heating, power seats, cameras, sound system, heated steering wheel, matrix headlights, backseat control screen, 4wd, performance and so on. Not having to deal with sales people and regular maintenance are bonuses.

And if you're in Europe, you charge it a home or on street parking with no hassle of going to a charging/gas station.

In what country you need to spend a lot more than 50k to get those features ? They are pretty standard for that price range.

It's also a bit ironic that you mention 'not dealing with regular maintenance', under the article stating that Model 3 is literally the worst car on the market when it comes to significant faults.

All that being said, I'm still interested why the OP is at his 4th Tesla.

Thinking of euros here, also in the Netherlands. Adjust that down to 35k or what the Model 3 costs in the US.

For example: speccing out a BMW X1 which is a smaller car than the Model Y, to match all the Tesla standard equipment, takes the final price to over €70k (and that’s without choosing the best engine option). While the Y already offers the same features at €45–54k, more space, huge panorama roof and ridiculously better performance. Unfortunately some companies are continuing this tradition in their EV product lines as well.

“No maintenance” refers to the lack of engine, no oil changes, less moving parts, longer brake pad life due to regen, which is one of the answers to why buy an EV.

If you are leasing, it’s normal to replace the car every 2-3 years as it gets old, especially an EV. 10-20% of all cars, and >50% of EVs on the road are on a company lease here.

I assume that you only drove each car 3 years max?

After 3 years a car has to be inspected for the first time by law in Germany. Maybe you just didn't know something was wrong? Because usually people have their car inspected before going to the mandatory "Hauptuntersuchung" (HU) which Tesla apparently doesn't recommend, thus Teslas failing the HU en masse.

There is anecdata and data. The TÜV Süd report is the latter.

The low friction tires are less durable afaik. I've noticed this in practice with the comparison between my plugin and others full electric which almost always have those kind of tires. N=1 of course.

Edit: also, the APK is only after the first 4 years, and does not check things like brake fluid (which you should replace now and then) and things like bearing wear unless it becomes so obvious that it is affecting driving chacteristics. The APK does not check a lot of wear and tear so you should still do regular checkups.

Edit: maintenance is not mandatory. Only when it would be in violation of the APK, and by that time you damaged more than you should have.

I have a 2017 Model S and two of my buddies bought Model 3/Ys two years ago, neither of us ever had any serious issues, except for the random rattle in the cabin every now and then. The finish is clearly not very high quality, but the car and all the systems have worked flawlessly so far.

Although the submission title says "Faults by Car Brand", the article is actually about specific models, where Tesla's Model 3 scored the lowest.

I think report by TUV does not differentiate how quickly problem is solved. The issue is that problems are frequent. When buying new car I don't want to go to service more than once a year. Twice at most.

4 cars in 10 years is 3 cars too many.

> 4 cars in 10 years is 3 cars too many

If you’re constantly totalling them, sure. If you’re re-selling, it’s totally fine to show a preference for new vehicles. I don’t. But I also don’t care that much for cars or driving; to each their own.

> it’s totally fine to show a preference for new vehicles

If you don't care about your environmental impact. I'm getting tired of these talking points where you shouldn't assume any kind of responsibility for your "preferences".

> If you don't care about your environmental impact

My point is the environmental effect is de minimis. Possibly positive. The old car is still being driven, just by someone else. Given it’s an EV, it’s likely—on the margin—pushing an ICE vehicle off the road.

This is logically sound when phrased like this but it is not the reality. Studies show you should drive a car into the ground to achieve maximum environmental benefit (or minimum impact is more accurate)

This is realized when you look at vast junkyards of unused cars in the US.

>Studies show [...]

1. source?

2. what is their methodology for "maximum environmental benefit", and how do they account for the fact that when you buy a new car that costs 5 tons CO2e to produce and sell it 2 years later, that you're not on the hook for all 5 tons of emissions? That said, the cost of buying cars every 2 years probably isn't zero either. There are transaction costs and at the margins you're probably pushing the average lifetime of a car ever so slightly lower, thereby causing more emissions to be generated from manufacturing. However on the flip side, OP mentioned that he was doing this with teslas (ie. electric cars), and they're better for the environment compared with ICE cars. If his actions are displacing used ICE cars, he could be actually doing a net good by effectively subsidizing the replacement of ICE cars with electric.

>This is realized when you look at vast junkyards of unused cars in the US.

The tight used car market begs to differ.

Could you please sell everything you have, give it to a charity and live in the woods?

I'm getting tired of every discussion diverging into a 'environmental impact' judgment message from anonymous.

This is the same argument as "don't complain, someone has it worse" and it's a flawed one.

Fallacy of relative privation.

>never had any serious issues that were not addressed immediately.

okay but how many serious issues have you had?

>Its a utopica to think EVs somehow need less upkeep.

EVs objectively need less upkeep compared to engine cars because a substantial portion of maintaining a car is related to the engine and transmission.

An EV still requires maintenance like repressurizing tires; replacement of worn out tires, brakes, and wiper blades; refilling of fluids like the windshield cleaner; and so on in addition to anything EV specific, but that's all still far less compared to engine cars.

Having any serious issues with a few years old car is a problem. Id consider that a lemon. If you've had that experience multiple times from the same manufacturer...

n=1

Well, N=4 in this case. But sure its no research

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