Comment by IsaacL | Hacker News Reader

Comment by IsaacL | Hacker News Reader

I'd rework Paul Graham's list a little, as the first two items are phrased in negative terms (it's easier to do stuff than to not do stuff).

"Follow your dreams; take a break; say what you think; cultivate friendships; be happy."

The idea of putting them at the top of your todo list is interesting. At the moment I organise myself with Trello, one list per project, and at the top of each list I have a card that reminds me why I'm doing the project. Every now and again I check these cards to see if any projects should be culled -- if they're not meeting their goals, or if there's a better way to achieve those goals, or if I no longer care about those goals.

Keeping long-term priorities in mind when caught up in the midst of your daily tasks seems like a winner. Your life is lived one day at a time, after all -- if you don't seize the day, you won't seize your life.

Anyway, the whole idea of combining your todo list with your bucket list -- your daily goals with your life goals -- is interesting. I've seen a few startups based on this idea (evr.st, Goalhawk). It'll be interesting to see if the model works.

I didn't phrase them that way by accident.

"Follow your dreams" is too strong. I wrote about that here: http://www.paulgraham.com/hs.html.

"Don't work too much" is phrased that way because it really is a matter of avoiding something.

>Don't work too much

Then why advocated startups "as a way to compress your whole working life into a few years." So is this balance only good after you've "made it"?

http://paulgraham.com/wealth.html

The phrase "don't work too much" doesn't mean "don't do a lot of work today." It means don't let work take up your whole life. Starting a startup is the best way to do that, if you're suited to it. Note the word "compress" in the passage you quote.

This implies that you advocate working very hard for what is essentially an early retirement.

Or at least working very hard on one thing so you can spend your time doing whatever else you care about, which may be "working" on other passion projects.

Sort of. More like working very hard till you achieve financial independence, after which you can do whatever you want. You don't have to stop working; you just never have to work on anyone else's terms.

Would you agree that adjusting expectations might also be a way to get there, at least partially?

"Financial independence" isn't just a measure of wealth, it's also a measure of one's own personal burn rate.

I think that financial independence is the definition of retirement. It is only seen as a mismatch (and early if before the age of 60 or so) because the conventional path to financial independence is working for 50 years. Someone who has spent 50 years working and is now financially independent will not want to do any more work ever again. Someone who is financially independent at the age of 26 or 30 though will probably keep working. This doesn't mean that the latter person isn't retired; an unconventional path to retirement leads to an unconventional retirement.

For the majority of people this is unobtainable. Which is where your theory breaks down, I think. Because if a huge proportion of people adopt this attitude and strive for independence, most will fail and be ultimately unhappier for it.

Which sounds like I am recommending resigning oneself to never achieving.

But really what I am saying is this; figure out realistic goals, add a little bit, then head toward them. Also, enjoy yourself on the way.

Most successful people to my observation fall into two camps; ridiculously talented and "lucky". The former have realistic high level goals anyway. And the latter are, by definition, random.

Believe me, no one knows better that starting startups is not for everyone. That's why I was careful to qualify the great grandparent with "if you're suited for it."

[...] Work very hard till you achieve financial independence, after which you can do whatever you want.

This is a very interesting statement. The thing to keep in mind is that working very hard changes you, so that the thing you'll most likely do after achieving financial independence is probably more of the same (very hard work).

I'm taking a different approach, perhaps most succinctly advocated by Mr. Money Moustache (http://www.mrmoneymustache.com):

Become extremely frugal till you achieve financial independence, after which you can do whatever you want.

This is done with the same caveat: after achieving financial independence, you'll most likely continue being frugal, which is a very good thing.

If you're prudent with your lifestyles and finances, "financial independence" doesn't have to mean "enough money to last a lifetime." It just means "enough money to last until I have a reasonable certainty of making more money." I know a bunch of people on incomes far lower than a software engineer's that will intersperse work with 6 months to a year of doing something interesting like hiking the Appalachian trail, traveling around the world, or living in Thailand.

A question, which hopefully doesn't come across as facetious, as it isn't mean to be: Do you do whatever you want?

I ask this in the context of having been through the start-up mill in the 90s and watched other people make 10 figures off the technology (WiFi) I worked on. I still work 9-5 for someone else, and need to.

Eventually I came to the conclusion that I have to "live for today". If a firm opportunity presents seize it, but don't compromise today in the name of nebulous rewards tomorrow. Don't wait for retirement or financial independence, but try and do stuff now, using the means at my disposal.

I ask this question on the assumption some people here have had the opposite experience and would advocate going out on a limb for future rewards. When it paid off, did the change in circumstances meet expectation? It's always interesting to hear from people who have had a different experience.

No, that's a good question. I can do whatever I want. But doing things one wants at large scale often entails not doing it on a smaller scale.

As for the more general question, overall it was certainly worth it. If I were in the same situation again, I would do the same thing.

Thanks.

Can you clarify, perhaps with some examples, of doing something one might want at large scale and not doing it on a smaller scale? Thanks

Possible answer:

Large Scale: Convincing others to start startups and helping them achieve it.

Small Scale: Talking to journalists, defending Y Combinator in the press etc...

http://news.ycombinator.com

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3872886

Something bugs me about this, and I'm having a hard time putting my finger on it. The first thing that sticks out is that you kind of imply that there is no difference between work and not work. 'Working hard' is something you do for financial independence, which implies the earning of money. And yet, even after you earn enough, you say that it's okay to continue earning even more money through work? It seems to me that if one takes the dictum "don't work too hard" seriously that you'd stop earning money through work once you've earned enough. Otherwise the temptation to define work as something that you just want to do is too great, which would then render the dictum "don't work too much" meaningless.

Sorry if that's a little rushed, but there's a surprising amount to unpack about a seemingly simple statement.

I interpret this more as, don't work to the point where it pushes other priorities out of your life. For me, I'm young and don't have a family, so starting a startup with some friends could be a tough, yet fun learning experience. Maybe for people in different circumstances, it takes over your life to the point that you lose sight of your relationships or faith.

pg, it's a well known fact by researchers on habit creation that goals framed in a positive statement work much better. I liked the essay and came here to make that point, but what do you know somebody had said it already.

I'd also rephrase "be happier", as modern research also suggests that striving to be happy does not work for some people. If you look at the writer original #5 statement, it's "I wish I'd let myself be happier" which is not exactly the same... Admittedly it's a bit of nitpicking.

Nice essay

I dropped by to make precisely your first point.

Re: adding items to your todo lists, i feel like PG's 5 exhortations (which seem more like general advice than specific prescriptions) fit into something like the "epics" that were recently introduced into Pivotal Tracker, than actual items to do. One should take a look at each of the items placed on a todo list and ask "does this item take me closer or further from my goals?"

I think take a break misses the point of the second one.

The spirit is closer to what my father always says - no-one ever died wishing they'd spent more time in the office.

Take a break makes it sound like an hour or two out rather than what it is, basically saying it's really not all about work.

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