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Comment by bob1029 | Hacker News Reader

I just moved from a home with induction range to one with gas range and I feel like I am on crazy pills waiting for anything to happen now. I get that things like extreme control and wok cooking are a bit difficult on induction, but at least it's ~possible.

A consumer gas range simply doesnt put enough effective power into the cookware. This isnt only about boiling water quickly. This is about getting a pan hot enough fast enough to maintain a certain cooking style, even if its kind of half-assed. It might not be perfect, but I can make what I think is really good stir fry on a quality induction range (i.e. one that will actually tolerate movement of the pan without cutting power).

I had enough time to order an 1800w portable induction unit while I waited for my kettle to boil via fire this morning.

Even the cleanup is 10x better on induction.

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> A consumer gas range simply doesnt put enough effective power into the cookware.

I like both gas and induction but are you really comparing the equivalent equipment in your anecdote?

The cheapest induction range on us-appliance.com (FCFI3083AS) is $1000, and has a 3600w "boost" burner, or ~12K BTUs

A $1000 gas range from the same company (Frigidaire, FCRG3062AB) has an 18K BTU burner. That's significantly more power.

The gas burners are wildly inefficient at transferring heat to the pot/pan. E.g. Wirecutter says gas is only 32% efficient, so the nominal 18 BTUs is only 5.8 BTUs in the pan. Whereas electric is at least 75% efficient (higher for induction) so a nominally 12 BTU electric stove provides at least 9 BTUs in the pan. In this case the electric stove is still effectively more than 50% more powerful.

Most of the gas stove's heat is lost and doesn't make it into the food though. Hard to know how much, but I read maybe only 30-40% of a gas stove's BTU output actually makes it into the food... so I would actually think a 12k BTU induction stove could put more heat into the food you're cooking than an 18k BTU gas burner. If this is the summer time, the gas burner is extra sucky and heating up your home. You also need to blast your exhaust fan when using a gas burner and may therefore need to condition more air than with an induction.

Yes and the efficiency rating of an induction device compared to gas is about 3x because its heating the container directly vs indirectly.

https://www.energystar.gov/partner_resources/brand_owner_res...

Randomly googled efficiency:

> when cooking with gas, about 60 percent of the energy is wasted, compared to just 16 percent with induction

Which translates to induction winning 10.08 vs 7.2 useful BTUs

I am coming from this model:

https://www.jennairappliances.com/appliances/cooktops/induct...

To this model:

https://www.frigidaire.com/en/p/kitchen/ranges/gas-ranges/FC...

Definitely not comparable on cost basis.

All of that said, I can use the same techniques stepping down from a 5kW to a 1.8kW unit. Once you get above ~2500 watts on induction it doesn't feel like it's moving the needle that much. I rarely used the 5kw boost mode. It was actually too powerful in most cases, even stir fry if you weren't moving like a mad man.

Moving from gas or resistive to electromagnetic seems like the actual magic trick.

That's still not a complete picture.

That 18K BTU of gas is heat under and around the pan. Most of it licks around the sides and up into the room. It's 30-40% efficient.

Induction coils are 85% efficient. 85% of your 12K BTU is heat energy in the fabric of the pan.

You certainly can get very very hot burner rings. They're commercial units usually. But they're wasting so much energy.

Your place may have an extremely underpowered gas stove?

Tons of places do stir fry on gas.

Probably the norm I would say.

If you go to a hibachi grill, they're doing it right out in the open.

I have a good gas (propane) stove top and the big burner definitely is good for stir-fry. I'm sure many cheaper gas stoves are not as good.

A home gas stove in the US will probably make around 10k BTUs. Some have burners designed for high heat cooking that might go over 20k BTUs. Your average wok burner used for stir frying in a restaurant is going to be over 100k BTUs, possibly 200k. To be clear, you can do a tasty stir fry over lower heat; but realize that the commercial wok burners are specialized equipment, and any home gas stove will be underpowered by comparison.

I don't wok cook.

It sounds like the person I was originally responding to doesn't have a complaint with gas stoves but more with the fact that they are no longer cooking on a specialized piece of equipment.

I suspect this problem is really dependent by city or even neighborhood. I think the real practical limit is the municipal supply design rather than the available units.

A friend had a 5 burner unit in their house that visibly dropped output if you ran 4 or 5 at the same time, just not enough gas coming into the house. By comparison the commercial kitchen on the same block was happily running a flat top an 2 other stations at full blast; so it can't have fundamentally been supply just the way it was distributed.

For water heating specifically, get an electric kettle. They are optimized for boiling water, much faster than gas OR induction on a stove.

Microwave works pretty good too.

This has certain downsides depending on the container you are using.

Have to be careful about super heated water and flash boiling.

Most consumer microwaves have a turntable in them, which eliminates that problem. That's one of the reasons why most consumer microwaves have a turntable.

No? I don’t think that’s true? I think it’s based on the shapes of the container and how long you zap it n

No, they really don't. Microwave ovens are horribly inefficient. I've consistently found a kettle is much faster.

If a country with 220/240v electric kettles, I can believe it... but in the US the electric kettle is probably 110/120V at 12-15 amps, then I would think an induction stove kettle could be faster, no?

For the volumes often boiled in kettles, often 0.5l to 1.0l, only if you use a massively oversized pot. But then you need to account of the extra evaporation and greater cookware mass which hurts the induction stove.

Induction power is still limited by pot diameter and common cookware is very heavy for water boiling because other types of cooking need more even heat and higher temperatures.

I actually raced a 120v kettle versus and high-end induction stove to boil 1l and it was very close.

Electric kettles are very well optimized for speed and efficiency.

Your induction cooktop isn’t going to dump all of its power into a single ‘burner’, and the pot you use on an induction stove will have significantly more thermal mass than your average kettle. The heating element in an electric kettle will be directly heating the water. A induction cooktop will heat the pot first, then the pot heats the water. Lots more thermal mass to heat up.

my has stove gets WAAAY hotter then my mother's electric range. both faster to temp and overall heat. mothers stove is 4 years old, mine is 6.

I've never heard of electric being faster at boiling water than gas.

You either have a very poor gas stove or you moved to a much higher elevation where boiling water is just flat-out takes longer.

I think you may not have used induction.

Yeah, when I replaced my crap electric hob with induction I literally sent a video to my mum boiling a pan of water to show how crazy fast it was.

I'm in the UK though, maybe it's something to do with having 230v supply?

In North America residential electric is 240V across both hot lines or 120V hot to neutral. Most normal power outlets in homes are 120V but any large electric appliance like a stove or clothes dryer will use 240V.

So built-in stoves or cooktops will take 240V but a portable single burner induction cooktop would likely only use 120V.

No, in North America all electric hobs are 240v often 30 amp (sometime higher).

With cooking it's all about efficiency of heat transfer, latency of power change, and flexibility of pan lifting between the three types of hobs (electric resistive, induction, gas).

The efficiency of electric resistive and gas is poor, induction is great.

The latency of power change of electric resistive is poor, induction and gas are great.

Flexibility of pan lifting of electric resistive and induction are poor (lift more than a couple of centimetres and you have no heat), gas is good.

The standard electric hob in North America is powered by a NEMA 14-50 outlet which can provide 240V 50A, actually. Really high end ranges use 60A outlets. 30A outlets are typically used for electric dryers.

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