Comment by sneak | Hacker News Reader

Comment by sneak | Hacker News Reader

The issue with leaks like these is that for wealthy/powerful/notable people (ie targets of blackmail/extortion/threats/surveillance) their non-public residential addresses are now available, making the job much much easier for criminals who work offline.

This is why my ISP account at the house where I sleep (as well as all other utilities and services for the address) is not in my name, and does not have my phone number or email address on it.

You’re just one data leak away from people from the internet being able to show up at your house in the middle of the night with guns (or outsourcing same to the police with a swatting).

I spend a lot of time and money protecting against this type of attack. It’s annoying. There should be real, actual, criminal liability for putting people at risk like this.

Maybe if someone publishes the excerpts from these with everyone with the same residential zip code and last name as all sitting US senators, something will happen. Then again, when weev did that (with just email addresses), instead of going after AT&T who leaked the PII through simple negligence, they prosecuted the guy who downloaded it and alerted the press.

It’s almost as if everyone not wealthy enough to have staff/managers/shell companies is just expected to not have any privacy.

> non-public residential addresses

What is a "non-public" address? All addresses are public information. It is not at all clear what you're protecting and from whom; there is a distinct lack of a coherent threat model.

An address not known to be yours, one that is not associated with your name in public records, such as the one where you or your kids regularly sleep.

Everyone knows the address on your DL and vehicle registrations is basically public record, it’s sold to data brokers and is searchable. Same with any property held directly. This is why you have a holding company own the properties, and keep your name off the public records for the holding company.

Utilities might still be in your name, however, as not everyone knows how to obtain those under aliases or remembers to have their staff do it for them. They often want credit checks on a normal person for non-commercial service plans, or for residential addresses.

App location histories, mobile service location histories, Uber trip logs, food delivery order history, all of these are potential vectors for leakage, too.

There’s a big gap between “wealthy enough to be able to pay for some measure of privacy/safety for one’s family” and “wealthy enough to warrant spending salaries for three shifts of armed guards 24/7/365”.

So data brokers have access to search DL and vehicle registrations, but not holding company records? You do realize how ridiculous that sounds, right?

Also, what do you think will happen if someone learns you live at a particular address? Literally what risk is there?

Holding company owners don’t have to be public, only their managers (who need not have equity). You have to tell the IRS about the beneficial ownership but that’s not public record. The IRS, surprisingly, has been fairly good thus far about keeping private stuff private.

It’s not just data brokers who can search DL/vehicle data. It only costs a few bucks to access it. That’s their whole business model.

I know people who have been swatted, had their vehicles smashed, their children threatened, their houses shot up or vandalized or broken into, mail or packages stolen, et c. Fortunately I don’t personally know of any kidnappings or home invasions, but such an attack enables same for a sufficiently determined attacker.

People at risk like this either take steps to keep their residential addresses non-public, or hire 24/7 security forces, or both.

All property tax bills are public in Montreal for example. My name is tied to the address literally on the city of Montreal official website.

That's easy to mitigate, though, if you have money. Like the parent comment said all you have to do is buy all your property through a shell LLC (or Canadian equivalent), put all the utilities in the name of that LLC, and have your lawyer's lawyer file all the incorporation papers and it's very, very difficult to trace back the actual owner

Good luck getting a mortgage for your shell LLC - won't happen.

Chase offered me one.

Chased offered to loan your shell LLC business hundreds of thousands of dollars without collateral or any credit history? Why don't I believe you?

The house is of course the collateral on the mortgage, and the offer was contingent upon my personal guarantee of the LLC’s mortgage. Of course, that would have been between me and Chase, which would keep my name off the public records - the goal of the whole holding company exercise.

Go explore ownership records on zillow and such in major american cities, you will see a lot of houses owned by RandomName LLC

Those are almost certainly not primary residences, they are likely not mortgaged by their owners (without a substantial rental business providing collateral, for example), and most states LLC records are completely public.

The records of the LLC’s managers are public, but not usually their beneficial owners (unless they are the same people).

The way to do it is to have your attorneys be the managers of your holding companies, then you can direct them (under privilege, afaik) to sign what you like. This is how I do it. Alternately if you have staff you trust and expect to have a long time (I don’t), they can be your holding company’s manager(s).

You don't even have to be notable. Just piss the right people off

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