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Comment by danpalmer | Hacker News Reader

> Adobe says the FTC is looking into its subscription cancellation practices

Great news, where do I testify? Adobe tried to bribe me personally to not fight their subscription cancellation policies for the company I was representing. Given how obviously unimpressed I was with the whole thing and how I was clearly not the target market of a creative cloud subscription, I can only assume that this is a policy that the sales rep tried to push, rather than a one-off they thought might work.

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It’s great to see the FTC is looking into this. Every time I’ve had to deal with Adobe subscriptions it always feels like they put you through some maze which usually ends in being forced to pay a cancellation fee or losing in some other way. I recently lost 160 asset tokens I had saved up in Adobe Stock after canceling my subscription. I’m sure it mentions this in the fine print somewhere but the only reason I had saved that many tokens up was because I couldn’t cancel without paying the fee. So they trapped me, took my money and then took back the tokens I only paid for because they locked me in with a cancellation fee in the first place. At the very least I should be able to keep the asset tokens. The whole thing seemed absolutely ridiculous to me.

There is only a cancellation fee if you buy an annual subscription, paid monthly, and then you don't pay for the 12 months you committed to. For people who don't want to buy a year at a time there is a monthly plan that is more expensive since you are no longer buying in bulk.

Unless you have clear proof of that (saved emails...) and own the company, or you were acting as third party (consultant,...) I would advise not making those accusation in a public place without consulting with their legal representative. It is simply not in your personal interest, and if someone starts an inquiry into this and said company doesn't want to help much you might find yourself in the middle of two legal giants in need of a scapegoat.

Thank you for your advice. The company no longer exists. I don't have any records of this because it was over the phone and probably 4 years ago.

I’m pretty sure adobe is not dumb enough to start a lawsuit that would give the defendant the right to go through their records …

Most effective thing to do relative to your time is probably participating in relevant FTC requests for public comments: https://www.ftc.gov/policy/public-comments

I looked around, and I can't find any names to pin to the investigation. There's a very low-tech way to find public staff contact information, but you need a name. I don't even have a telephone number for what is probably the correct group (Division of Financial Practices), just their DC mailing address. Regardless, I can tell you that right now that Washington offices are empty. Skeleton crews only. Check back in after the first of the year.

> Adobe tried to bribe me personally to not fight their subscription cancellation policies for the company I was representing.

Is that even legal?

Looking at your profile, it says you work for Google, so I assume this is in the context of google? You guys probably have the internal legal resources to advice you. If it was not in that context, ChatGPT at least suggest that this is first of all a federal fucking crime (Domestic Bribery Act seems to apply here) and you can contact the Department of Justice, the FBI or report it to the SEC which offers a whistleblower program.

Please consider your next steps carefully though and contact legal counsel basically immediately since you just publicly accused adobe representatives of a federal crime! Frankly, I would ask Dan to remove your comment ASAP.

Fun Fact: The SEC offers financial incentives to people who report those violations!

This sounds it might be like a hallucination. I've never heard of any "Domestic Bribery Act" and I'm unable to find one in cursory online searching. (In 18 USC there are prohibitions on bribing public officials, but that doesn't seem relevant here.)

Fascinating, i think you are correct. This website at least suggests that there are some other laws regarding domestic bribes: https://www.globalcompliancenews.com/anti-corruption/anti-co...

But "Domestic Bribery Act" seems to be a hallucination. I have so far only encountered fake sources or links that don't exist, this kind of hallucination is new and unexpected.

Thanks for making me aware of this, quite scary how utterly convincing chatGPT was in this instance.

Also FWIW, I'm in the UK and was likely dealing with a UK subsidiary of Adobe, so the laws would likely be different anyway.

The SEC effectively has worldwide jurisdiction, for something that relates to a USA-listed company. The tip submission form seems relatively lightweight. https://www.sec.gov/whistleblower/submit-a-tip

The UK Bribery Act is, on paper, very strong and broad in application. Unfortunately prosecutions under it are exceptionally rare.

> this kind of hallucination is new and unexpected

I don’t think it’s new or unexpected at all. Remember the lawyers who used ChatGPT and it ended up fabricating case law?

ChatGPT is interesting and all but it’s seriously untrustworthy.

ChatGPT is trained to sound convincing, not to be correct.

ChatGPT is not a good place to get legal advice. Regardless, there are a variety of ways that you can get boned for accepting bribes in your capacity as an employee. In the US, the "honest services" laws have been weakened by Supreme Court action, but there are other paths to criminal prosecution.

The advice of "STFU and get the comment removed" is spot on.

This was several years ago in a different role before my current employer, and has nothing to do with my current employer. I agree that legal advice would have been good here, but to be honest I was just glad to cancel the subscriptions and move on with more important things. The company I worked for is sadly out of business now so wouldn't be a target of any action, and I stand by my comments in a personal capacity so have no wish to take them down currently, but thank you for the advice.

I wouldn't be (and am not) making this sort of accusation on behalf of any operating company without prior approval.

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