Hacker News Reader

Comment by flappyeagle | Hacker News Reader

They have main character syndrome. I have seen people throw empty wrappers and cans out the window of a car at an intersection.

They’ve no concept of the public good. Life is just a series of hustles for them to scam their way through existence.

View on HN

Yeah, the amount of mcdonalds trash I've found in a park within 15 feet of a bin is really amazing. They just can't be bothered. The park is there to serve them, and there exist others who take the trash away for their enjoyment.

A non-zero amount of litter comes out of bins due to wind or wildlife!

> Life is just a series of hustles for them to scam their way through existence.

Well maybe we’ll get to hear from some of them! This sounds like the exact place to find people with that attitude.

I used to date someone with a nicotine addiction who threw cigarette butts on the ground, or out of the window if driving. Whilst I strongly disapproved of the behaviour, she did not exhibit any of the other qualities you ascribe to litterbugs. She picked up her dog's shit, for example.

I think it was just a case of it seeming like a tiny amount of litter compared to the hassle of safely and cleanly disposing of a smoldering cigarette.

I agree that littering is antisocial, but if you paint everyone who does it as sociopathic, you prematurely rule out a bunch of measures that might be effective in tackling the problem.

In many parts of the world cigarette butts specifically are not considered "littering" and it's socially acceptable to just throw them on the pavement. Everyone did that when I was growing up.

Cigarette filters contain plastic.

Plus a lot of toxins from the cigarette, their purpose being to filter that out of the smoke.

Yeah, and not to justify or minimize it in any way (just old enough to remember the US before smoking bans started up and contributing a bit of explanation of how people thought back then), but cigarette butts are also a bit less "portable" than a lot of other litter. It's something that was recently on fire; you can't just put it in your pocket to dispose of later like a candy wrapper. You need to stub it out on something first and often the convenient way to do that is to put it on the ground and grind it with your shoe. At that point it's already on the ground and now it's an extra step to pick it back up vs just leave it there. Plus, unless you were extremely careful putting it out, it might be safer to leave it on the pavement or dirt than to toss it into a garbage can where you risk starting a fire if there isn't a dedicated ash tray available. So, yeah, cigarette butts were/are commonly normalized as something slightly different than "litter" for many.

"Disposing of this is too inconvenient" is more or less exactly the same as other litter.

Right, but GP's point is that cigarette butts are uniquely inconvenient in a way that, say, a candy wrapper isn't.

Sure, but that wasn't really my point; people were being branded as semi-psychopathic for littering, and I just wanted to point out that this is hugely influenced by social norms and such.

I mean, smoking is pretty anti-social adjacent. Smells bad, makes the people that do it smell bad, leads people to argue that their litter is special.

Yeah, I don't agree with that at all. Lots of things "smell bad" or are an inconvenience to others. We all have to "suck it up" at times.

> You need to stub it out on something first and often the convenient way to do that is to put it on the ground and grind it with your shoe.

Takes about 3 seconds for me to roll the cigarette with two fingers right there by the cherry and squeeze a little bit and pop it right out. Shoe is way too much work.

As an ex-smoker, I also used to just toss cigarette butts anywhere without thought. Decades after quitting it's still surprising to me that I ever thought this was normal (I've never, otherwise, been a big litterer).

At least when I began smoking in my early teens this was just what smokers did. When you were done smoking you just tossed the butt on the ground and stomped it out. I remember being annoyed when someone scolded me for littering, at the time it somehow felt different but I admitted the logic didn't quite work out.

I suspect a lot of this behavior originated from behaviors established before filtered cigarettes were the norm. Just tobacco rolled in thin paper, especially when burnt to the end before it burns your fingers, will likely break down after the first heavy rain. Filtered butts however, hang around for a long time.

i have serious mental health problems and physical health problems so i can sometimes come off as entitled just because i am in pain. but my solution to the problem of not littering is that i put things in my pockets. one can even have a small dog poop bag and put the stuff into it. but i would reason that orange peels and banana peels are ok to put into bushes. maybe this is controversial, but i do this and if you tell me off about it im gonna become defensive and write you off as porcelain lover. (a person who likes using a toilet rather than shitting from a branch in nature)

i agree on most of your comment.

Do what now?

Reply on news.ycombinator.com