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Comment by askonomm | Hacker News Reader

I never understood why in some countries the system never forgets - it's like they want to punish you till death, even after you already served your sentence.

In Estonia, no matter how horrific the crime, your record gets wiped after 7 years since you finished serving the sentence (got out of prison / probation ended / paid a fine), allowing for people to move on with their lives.

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I like the idea of this but wonder if a better system would be record gets wiped after 7 clear years.

So if someone is committing crimes every 3 or 4 years, the previous records show to reflect ongoing behaviour type, but if you have 7 'clear' years then all is wiped.

It's 7 years after the punishment ends, which, yeah, if it's been 10-15 years since you've committed a crime, it's unlikely you've somehow been biding your time, waiting to commit the next one.

I think thats how Steam does it :)

After 7 years of no more VAC/game bans the previous ones disappear.

lmao, steam having a better criminal system than US is something that i wasn't expecting ho hear today

gaben for President!

Nope. I still have my one and only VAC ban on my profile from 4995 days ago, it's not going anywhere :)

Though possibly Valve handles it differently for first party games, this was for Modern Warfare 2.

Here in Denmark criminal records becomes inaccessible to non-government actors 2-5 years after sentence served, depending on the severity of the crime, and 10 years for the government/public sector. In theory it's never wiped and keeps being accessible to the Danish Security and Intelligence Service, so it may still affect your ability to get a security clearance.

There is the caveat though that names are allowed to be published in some cases of more severe crime, so in cases like murder an employer might still be able to find out about it with a google search.

Because it would damage the reputation of the airline if, in a future incident, the media reports that "and record show he had a previous arrest for DWI". The media would spin it to look like the airline took the risk. I'm not defending that take, just explaining it.

The key point is to expunge these old criminal records so no one could find them. Not the media, not a future employer.

Not possible for any crime that is reported on by media, surely.

If its online newspapers then in EU we have the "right to be forgotten" which helps with those articles to be removed from search engines.

> which helps

Especially if you’re a corrupt politician, child abuser etc. it’s really helpful for that sort of people. Not so much for everyone else, but why would that ever be an issue?

I would think that, especially in a everything-online world, this is very useful for regular people. I for sure have removed some links to embarrassing posts I made as a teen, to which I've long lost account access to, to remove manually. And now with everybody's kids being on Tik Tok etc since very early age, I assume it will be used more and more.

If the law is written correct you sue any orinization that digs it up for libel. When those are won they will stop.

So newspapers will be afraid to report on things like that even when it clearly is in the in interest of the society for them to do that?

Criminal records don’t exist just to punish people and penalize them for the rest of their lives but also to inform other what those people are capable of. Expungement should only be possible for non-serious crimes and/or on a case by case basis

What crimes should be expunged, when it should be done, and how to do it are all debates worth having. There are lots of other details worth debating. However once the crime has been expunged it shouldn't be brought back again - that is the whole point: let people who have reformed get on with their life as best as possible.

Right. Expunged to the point where you could say "No I have never-" on a government form without that being considered a lie.

I looked into getting my record cleaned up/sealed with my attorney and it all just sounded very... expensive.

The internet never forgets though. You'd have quite a job deleting all the old reports in the media.

I mentioned in another comment here, but if you are in EU, the "right to be forgotten" makes it quite easy to remove results you do not like about yourself from search engines. Google for example provides a simple form to fill out, and from what i recall in about a month or so those links are gone from results.

Understandable, but this is precisely why teenage antics should not leave permanent records for anyone to exploit.

There is too much tolerance for dui/dwi in the world. Repeat offences should result in a permanent loss of the driver's license.

Sure, permanent loss of drivers license, fine. Does it need to also permanently prevent persons career opportunities though? That's the question here.

Right, and the point is to shape a society where the plebian morons don't have influence on anything of importance, voting being the notable exception.

I know you're not defending the point. I'm just saying.

its an un-solvable problem. the media (going from well before the internet) profits off of outrage.

Even the courts? If someone is convicted of murder, serves their sentence then 8 years later they do it again, do the courts know of the previous crime?

Yes, the courts will know (and possibly also police, I'm not sure). However anyone else will get back a criminal record report that's empty. Like if you need to provide a criminal record for visa purposes, or when an employer requests one, or if a bank wants to decide whether or not to give you mortgage. So it's not that your status as a human being in the eyes of the law are reset, it's that for the purposes of opportunities given to you, you are equal to everyone else.

What about child abusers? People convicted of fraud or other types of corruption? etc. Basically people that never should never be allowed to do certain types of work because it wouldn’t be in the public interest?

I'm not sure, actually. The law doesn't seem to specify, although it does say exceptions can be made, so I figure that's what happens. Estonia has also been known to deport its own citizens when they truly are a menace to our society.

> Estonia has also been known to deport its own citizens when they truly are a menace to our society.

Deport where? Could you please provide us more info?

Seems pretty reasonable!

I will never forget that scene in los Soprano in which, after a car crash, a character asks another one to just kill him before having to deal with the consequences of his DWI

That's not exactly what happened, he wanted him to get a cab.

Or perhaps it's not about punishment but about protecting the public from potentially irresponsible people. Driving and piloting a plane should be considered privileges that come after training and demonstration of ability and understanding of responsibility. These aren't things that should be rights and considered a punishment to take away.

While possibly still not true, in many places these are actually special crimes that can be never forgotten (driving crimes)... not even true for sex offenses, of the lowest levels.

Suddenly I love Estonia. In North America punishment lasts until on dies.

We have this in Norway as well. The chief of police explained it when someone wanted to change it: "We have a tradition here that the court sentences you, and that's it. When you're done with the court's sentence, you've paid your dues to society." It's a good thing.

And that's also why the newspapers will generally write that "a 27-year old from X" did this and that instead of using a full name. People widely known for a crime by their full name can apply to change their name at some point.

In California juvenile criminal records get wiped when the person turns 18. You can also petition to get your record expunged. Can be done but not automatic. Easier for minor douchey crimes and unlikely to impossible to serious ones.

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