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Comment by hackinthebochs | Hacker News Reader

I wonder if the U.S. will ever be free from the grips of its puritanical heritage.

Do you think it's holding us back? What social benefit is there behind allowing 13-year-olds to easily view this content?

But to your point, when I was 13, I was able to find much worse (or better depending on how you look at it) pornography on the internet. And that was in the late 90s. So I'm not convinced this is the worst thing in the world. However, I get why Twitch feels like they can't allow it. And I'd still rather have this sort of censorship occur at the corporate level than at the government level, as we're seeing some states attempt.

I think there's somewhat of a difference between a 13 y/o having this content shoved in their face vs them having to proactively look for it.

That really is the key here, no child looking for damaging material is looking for it on twitch. "The think of the children" angle is just a convenient stand-in for the real issue, which is the puritanical cultural threads that still influence many Americans and how they respond to nudity and sex.

That’s the opposite problem though. The issue is damaging material being pushed towards kids that are not looking for it.

Sure, I don't think kids (or anyone) should have "damaging material" pushed in their faces. But the issue with the twitch community's reaction to their moderation changes isn't about content being pushed onto kids, its about the community's moral views regarding anything loosely associated with "camming". It's been a common thread since the beginning of twitch to talk down to non-gamers on twitch, usually women, and call them various derogatory terms implying that they're just glorified camgirls. The backlash against any and all non-gaming categories over the years is this dynamic playing out. This is just the most recent iteration. Over-dramatizing one's concern for kids is just a convenient surrogate that lands better.

Eh. The sexist thing is a lame defense. Yes there are sexist folks making aggressive claims. That does not define the system.

At the end of the day, if porn is allowed, then porn is everywhere. In a system like twitch, it is pushed on you without asking for it as a user. It could be quarantined and made opt in, but honestly they just failed to implement that effectively.

It's not a defense, we just seem to be having different conversations. But I agree with your point, the content should be opt in. Twitch bumbled their rollout of this change about as bad as they could have.

Perhaps we are. But the bumbled rollout is the thing being reversed.

> Do you think it's holding us back?

Absolutely, the idea that a naked human body is inherently obscene, and that we need to protect people from viewing it, is ridiculous. It's the sign of an immature society whose practices are still based upon ancient superstitions.

Do you think that kids should be shown imagery of a dog fucking a young girl

Probably not, but that shouldn't be conflated with nudity.

Fucking (typically) happens in the context of nudity, but there are many other reasons for nudity, and its association with and only with fucking in American society has led to some...unfortunate side effects.

Alright but you’re just drawing a slightly different line then. And both of the lines in question are running straight through the thick wad of content that gets pushed on kids if nothing is set up. So sure, Americans are prudes. But neither you, nor the Americans, want furry rape porn pushed on kids. Maybe you do want nudes pushed on kids. Is your opinion on the general setup of the system really that different? I think not.

First off, I'm American. I'm complaining about my own culture.

It's interesting that you're using active language ("pushed on") for kids browsing and seeing something. It's possible (likely, even) that "Artistic nudes" should have an 18+ tag on them that 1. Prevents an under 18 user from seeing them and 2. Is easily filtered out.

I'm kind of astonished that isn't already the case.

But I also think one thing that's happening is a bunch of people are taking the opportunity of Twitch expanding what's allowed to flagrantly break the expanded rules. And it's always a little funny to me when people say "People are flagrantly breaking the rules! We need tighter rules!"

Sure

But 1 and 2 are not implemented. That’s the tablestakes.

It’s not ironic to suggest that this particular rule is prone to abuse and that changing it would change user behavior.

Grow up

Exactly! We must celebrate the human body only by dismembering it!

Not while religion plays a role in politics and national discourse.

I must say the Satanic temple Xmas display at the Iowa State House was rather funny.

While I don’t think lack of nudity can “hold a society back”, somewhere around 99% of the male population in the United States is addicted to porn (which is a type of nudity). Clearly there is no lack of nudity.

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