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Comment by magic_man | Hacker News Reader

Apple basically didn't write anything down.

Tim Sweeney:

The thing with Apple is all of their antitrust trickery is internal to the company. They use their store, their payments, they force developers to all have the same terms, they force OEMs and carriers to all have the same terms.

I think the Apple case would be no less interesting if we could see all of their internal thoughts and deliberations, but Apple was not putting it in writing, whereas Google was. You know, I think Apple is… it’s a little bit unfortunate that in a lot of ways Apple’s restrictions on competition are absolute. Thou shalt not have a competing store on iOS and thou shalt not use a competing payment method. And I think Apple should be receiving at least as harsh antitrust scrutiny as Google.

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To attack Apple you'd have to attack vertical integration in general more aggressively, not just when it's "unfair". Which Epic won't do because the integration between their games, their engine licensing, and their store is also a key part of their identity today.

I think the only part of what you describe that is potentially a vertical tie is the Unreal Marketplace license requiring that assets you buy only be used in Unreal.

Otherwise, you can put non-Unreal games on EGS, and you can put Unreal games on other stores. EGS does not give you benefits if you choose to publish an Unreal game on EGS, and I'd be surprised if all the games EGS buys exclusivity for are Unreal games.

Epic does sell their own games on Epic Game Store, but they also sell most of their games on Steam too (with the huge exception of Fortnite, though it's free to play)

> EGS does not give you benefits if you choose to publish an Unreal game on EGS

This is false. If you sell a UE game in Epic's store they don't charge the engine licensing fee.

I stand corrected but your "False!" is in bad form.

Here's the docs, search for Epic Games Store in this FAQ. They waive the 5% royalties when sold on Epic Game Store. https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/faq

Right, the problem is that I said it was false, not that you said something totally false with such certainty.

Hey I said, "I think", and was ready to accept that there was more to it. Yours was assertive about that being wrong without providing any supporting evidence for your claim. You made me find it instead. Hence the "bad form".

I'm not sure how "I think..." conveys certainty.

It's just an abrasive thing to do running around going "False!" and "Wrong!" on the Internet. So yeah I'll give you flak for it.

I put in effort to try to not be abrasive because people call that out when I do. You're just receiving the same.

What's he supposed to say? "Sweetie, you might maybe be possibly wrong maybe. I might be wrong too but i think it could be saying..."

He didn't attack you or act abrasive. You are right that "I think" is not supremely certain language, but it does actually carry certainty with it since you're not saying "I don't know anything about this, but I think..."

Conclusion: I believe you're being a bit overly defensive, and should relax a little. He wasn't personally attacking you, he was saying you were false when you were objectively false, without much in the way of personal insult or even arrogance, and cited his source reasonably well.

Google and Microsoft generally are the backstop against an Apple monopoly. Don't like Apple making so many decisions for you as a user? Windows and Android are right there.

It's hard though - I've been an Android dev for 8 years but have always had an iPhone.

I've never considered switching to Android.

And despite the fact that I want a wide variety of options, I prefer MacBooks, I prefer many Apple services, including software.

Google and Microsoft have gone too far in the direction of shoving ads into all my interactions with their products that I now have no interest in using, much less paying for, most of them. The only Google services I still use are Nest and YouTube (both of which I pay for). I use MS for some of my email, but I’m migrating away. Unless Google and Microsoft see the light and accommodate users who hate ads, it’s going to be mostly Apple and Linux for me.

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