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Comment by 3cats-in-a-coat | Hacker News Reader

When someone comes to your store and says "I'll wreck your store unless you cut me 30% of your revenue" that's the mafia.

When someone comes to your store and says "I made the streets and regulate the power, water supply, sewer, and everything else in this place, cut me 30% of your revenue in taxes" that's the government.

And you'd do well to not confuse those so haphazardly. Apple didn't come to your app and with no cause blackmail you to get your money. They created an ecosystem that did not exist before, and they have to maintain it. Paying for it is completely rational.

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I don't think likening Apple's stranglehold on users to the authority of a government helps your case.

I don't think likening Apple's authority over its own platforms to the government's stranglehold on citizens helps your case.

Am I doing this right?

I didn't liken Apple to a government, you did.

> Am I doing this right?

No.

Likening it to a government given every company has a domain over its own products and services, makes a lot more sense than likening it to a mafia which doesn't come to contribute, but only to take.

Apple allows you to ship infinite amount of apps at no cost, if you don't in return ask the store for money.

What kind of a mafia works like that?

There's some nuance to the 30% fee. Under $1M in revenue it's 15% and after a year it's 15%. No fee for free apps. No fee for physical things.

30% is way too high. 15% seems high as well without knowing the costs or benefits of the App Store.

> When someone comes to your store and says "I'll wreck your store unless you cut me 30% of your revenue" that's the mafia.

That's exactly what Apple does. If you make a mobile app (for example, a presentation manager) you _have_ to support iOS, or you will go out of business.

As a developer, you simply don't have a choice. You have to either support iOS, or get out of mobile apps entirely.

> You have to either support iOS, or get out of mobile apps entirely.

What? That’s not true. There are plenty of Android-only developers.

Any example of a major Android-only app for the US?

Beeper Mini, Fortnight, several Google apps.

Keyword: major.

Fortnight is the only example, and it's on its way to SCOTUS. Google apps, which one?

Fortnite has an iOS version. They just stopped being able to update it because of Epic's shenanigans.

Not gonna lie, all of these examples are pretty weak because all of them are in circumstances that 99% of developers are never going to be in.

Beeper Mini replicates native iOS functionality - it's obvious why it can only exist as an Android-only app.

Fortnite is the product of a massive studio, whose decision of not publishing it on iOS was deliberate as part of their anti-monopoly lawsuits. They can easily afford to do it because Epic Games has other revenue sources, alongside with running Fortnite on pretty much every other platform imaginable.

Google doesn't really cash in on their more niche apps, publishing them on iOS is unlikely to change anything for them. However, not choosing to publish them gives Android - their own product - a tiny boost in appeal due to exclusive functionality.

You said "As a developer", not "As a major developer".

Major? Probably not many; once you're a major developer, you'll go wherever there's money to be made. That doesn't mean it isn't possible to skip iOS—but unless you have some philosophical objection to it, there's no reason why you would.

But anyway, you said "As a developer..." not "As a major developer...".

Apparently you read only half the comment. Do you understand the distinction between destruction and construction or don't you?

By your logic there would be no towns, cities, countries, unions, companies, any kind of organization at all. Because any time you need to pay for something, you feel like it's the mafia.

- Is it the mafia when it comes time to pay time for rent. "I HAVE to pay rent or I'll be kicked out on the street!"

- Is it the mafia when it comes time to pay your bill at a restaurant. "I HAVE to pay my bill or I'll be hungry!"

No one owes you anything. You ask for money for your apps, don't you? Because why are you complaining otherwise? 40% of $0 is $0, isn't it? But you require money, despite maybe someone could be like "you're mafia unless I can play your game for free".

Things cost money. Grow up and start acting like an adult.

> Apparently you read only half the comment. Do you understand the distinction between destruction and construction or don't you?

Are you a part of mafia? How else would you defend Apple that is bent on destruction?

Isn’t this site supposed to have at least semi-intelligent people?

You could, however, give as much of the product away as you can for free (less $100 a year for developer account) and then Apple is basically paying you to distribute it on their platform. That's definitely not the mafia.

If you want to charge money, Apple will collect it for you and take a cut. If you don't want that deal, you can still distribute your app for free, you just can't charge money for it in the app. You can still charge money for the service, but you have to do that on your own website and infrastructure (a la Netflix, etc.), not Apple's.

I'm not up to date on Apple's current rules, but for years they have strictly forbidden you from directing users to your website to complete a purchase. You weren't even allowed to mention any other payment options in the app.

> If you want to charge money, Apple will collect it for you and take a cut. If you don't want that deal, you can still distribute your app for free, you just can't charge money for it in the app

Basically, you can't make money. Duh. You can't even place a link for a third-party payment system (the case to allow that is on its way to SCOTUS).

Apple is a mafia.

"They want money from my app when I want money from their store! Therefore I'm a victim and they're a mafia."

Seems to me you're not noticing the Kremlin levels of cognitive dissonance in your statement here. With this severe lack of self-awareness, if you were in Apple's place you'd be way worse than they are right now.

Yes, they are a mafia. And yes, they want 30% of the gross income, just like other mafias (that historically has been the mafia cut in New Jersey and New York).

> They want money from my app when I want money from their store!

Apple is a mafia because they want money that they do not earn. They didn't do anything that deserves 30% of gross to help me write my application, and they are not promoting it for free.

All they do is they provide a shitty autoupdate service.

> Seems to me you're not noticing the Kremlin levels of cognitive dissonance in your statement here.

Are you paid by Apple's Reich?

> Basically, you can't make money.

Worse, you can't make money and you have to pay the $100 developer fee every year. The developer fee is trivial if it's a business expensive, but quite expensive otherwise!

You realize that free apps still have to pass all the Apple rules in order to get in the store right? If they disagree with anything about your app, then you're blocked. I think that's a good thing for consumers (or at least it would be if they allowed sideloading for people who don't want to be controlled) but that doesn't change the reality that as a developer, Apple is the mafia.

Wait a second are you saying Apple is a government unto itself?

They govern the iOS platform.

They have more money and effective power than most governments worldwide.

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