Comment by neuromanser | Hacker News Reader

Comment by neuromanser | Hacker News Reader

Esports betting is the wild west frontier, targetting kids. It's one of the trifecta of biggest stains on professional Counter-Strike, along with Saudi and UAE money and weapon skins gambling. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JT17l53Fkj0&pp=ygUWaG91bmdvdW5....

Edit: Vast majority of CS tournaments are structured into two phases, "groups" and playoffs. Losing a match in groups means falling through into the "lower bracket", one Major tournament (ESL Pro League) even has three brackets. This leads to many "upsets" as the top teams play the opening matches against much lower-ranked opponents half-asleep, and then march through to (semi-)finals through the lower/lowest bracket. This effect was clearly demonstrated in a recent tournament with no second chances (Gamers8), where every underdog got eliminated in the first round. i don't bet on CS because of the unpredictability enabled by bracketing, but anyone could have made a shit ton of money by betting on the higher-ranked teams in the first round of Gamers8. I'm convinced the bracketing is a result of collusion between tournament organizers and bookmakers, their major sponsors.

I remember the CSGO lotto scandal where one of the main people promoting was part owner or something [1].

> There were no financial charges held against Cassell.

The craziest part of that whole debacle was his apology video with a nice view of the inside of his mansion and a fancy car sitting outside in the background. It was basically a "crime does pay" ad for the upcoming generation.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicate_(Internet_personalit...

That's way before I started following pro CS, but this past Sunday was the finals day of BetBoom Dacha, a tournament named after one of the competing teams. They placed 3rd-4th. https://www.hltv.org/events/7499/betboom-dacha-2023

Is there specific evidence to support the claim that esports betting is targeting kids, or is the presumption that video games = children?

Yes, there's specific evidence. There's a shit ton of online esports gambling platforms with next-to no age controls. Some of these are prominent tournament and/or team sponsors, and plenty of them advertise through pro players and content creators.

I can't make the case better than HOUNGOUNGAGNE in the video I linked earlier, and a few others:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp5eeNWKgFY

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07QgHRPD0ms

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT17l53Fkj0

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpvePQVscUQ

"Lack of age controls" doesn't mean "targeting kids" though, does it?

And I read the transcripts of the four videos, and I don't see anyone even suggesting the specific or explicit targeting of kids. Some mention of younger teens gambling, but nobody's claiming explicit targeting, as far as I can tell.

My point, though, is the whole, "think of the kids!" argument is often abused to try and prohibit activity that any adult should be free to engage in.

from the video its like 8 in 10 youtube/twitch streams on the games: who do you think watches?

Okay, so are we claiming then that video games are for children? That was my original question.

I don't think the claim is video games are (only) for children, but the claim is that a not insignificant number of the viewers/players are children. Advertising cigarettes in a superman comic doesn't mean comics are only for kids.

It does though, if your argument is that the advertising was targeted at kids. Is the argument here that, by virtue of being on a stream about a video game, the advertising is necessarily therefore targeting kids?

Because that's only the case if video games are for kids. If they're not for kids, which is all I hear when I talk to an adult about video games, then it's harder to draw the clear bright line some folks here seem to presume. Or are we now saying adults shouldn't be allowed to gamble too?

so you think loot box gamble mechanics are targeted at adults?

You seem to want to define targeting very narrowly, curious to know what you think about candy cigarettes or a cartoon camel…

Yes, why wouldn't they be?

Targeting doesn't have to be explicit or exclusionary. A gambling operation with no age controls is targeting kids, because who else is the lack of controls bring in?

Sorry but "targeting" implies intent, and negligence is the absence of intent.

We do have to think of the kids though. They are absolutely our future and will have to be capable of taking over the economy and our issues.

Children are a non negligible demographic of gaming oriented content and are vulnerable to profit seeking corporations and influencers capable of manipulating them. The target towards children is implicit unfortunately.

Can you even bet with CSGO skins anymore? Once CSGOLounge went down, it seems like that scene died off for the most part.

The wepon skin-gambling part lies strictly with Valve and the $2.50 key mechanic, with a minor but vital support from popular commentators like Chad "SPUNJ" Burchill. You can unlock a skin that sells for six digits; you will (99.9999999%) unlock a skin that sells for $0.17... And Valve will take 30% of that sale.

If we do away with that. Maybe we should also ban Magic The Gathering and like. After whole one ring serialized card it is pretty clear that whole thing is just an unregulated lottery...

Skins provide nearly-zero gameplay value, so for those, the analogy with lottery holds. But Mt:G cards have entertainment value separate from their dollar value, so that's fundamentally different.

MTG cards could be sold only in pre-constructed decks or even like living card games. Nothing mandates them being exploitative loot boxes filled mostly with filler...

Wouldn't it be better if you knew what you were getting?

I only play draft, so no.

It's not, not really. Prices of new set cards are basically set by a box price and the probability to get said card. If the price is too high, people will buy a lot of box, other cards in the same set prices will fall, until the price is right.

I don't think MtG should be banned wholesale, but I agree with your lottery point. That facet should go.

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