Why I Am Creating TCombinator | Hacker News Reader

Why I Am Creating TCombinator

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22 pointsalliem45 comments

If you're "on the brink" of "suicide, homelessness, and starvation", you're not ready to do a startup and there are a thousand things you need more than you need seed investment. This is absurd.

This is the most important comment in this thread here. It's not possible to start up a successful company when you're also on the brink of suicide, malnourished, and you're having deep internal conflict. Your startup is going to push those things on you by itself and adding to your personal conflicts and problems is asking for trouble.

Politically incorrect rant here; brace yourself.

Put simply, I have a hard time taking TG issues as seriously as I take gay rights, which I support unilaterally. There is a long history of homosexual behavior both in humans and in nature. But the idea of altering sexuality with surgery is extremely recent, and I am unaware of any precedent in nature (feel free to correct me).

Now, bear in mind that I support anybody's choice to do just about anything to themselves. If you want to give yourself a face tattoo, attach a shark fin to your back, or give yourself fake breasts, knock yourself out. And I don't think such individuals should be judged or persecuted, to the extent that's possible.

At the same time, the TG community needs to understand that people will judge you, not because they're prejudiced, but because judging is something that humans do in general. If someone laughs at you behind your back for a bad haircut or an outfit that clashes, it may be impolite and mean, but it's not out of hate. If you look ridiculous, whether it's for 50 piercings, or heavy makeup combined with an Adam's Apple, people are going to see you differently, period. And maybe I've received a bad sampling, but I can't ever recall encountering a TG person who did not look ridiculous to me. If that's my flaw, then I'll accept that. I still treated those persons with the same dignity I would give someone with a bad haircut.

I am sensitive to those who feel they were born with the wrong body, and absolutely believe that some people inherited a genuine genetic flaw with which they must cope. Even if the gender conflict is psychological, it is a person's right to deal with that how they choose. I understand what it's like to feel like a freak. (I'm still waiting on the possibility of species reassignment surgery...)

But be realistic. If you're going to switch to another gender, and you can't make it work so well that no one can tell the difference (ie, Carmen from It's Always Sunny), people are going to look at you weird. Everyone has their cross to bear, and if you are a TG person, this is yours.

This isn't really addressing the issue of "Is this a good idea to create TCombinator?", it's just a personal statement. Agreeing or disagreeing with this still makes it OT.

I accept the rebuke. :)

But it seems to me that part of the purpose of TCombinator is to get people to take TG individuals more seriously, and I would think that includes dialoguing with Neanderthals like me. I posted in part to spill my guts, but in part because I want to hear the other side as well.

There's plenty that's been written about trans issues and gender issues, much of which is available for free on the Web. Trans people are not unpaid tutors or teachers for cis people (if you don't know what "cis people" means, look it up). Do the research, and then come with questions that show you've done it.

"But the idea of altering human sexuality with surgery is extremely recent, and I am unaware of any precedent in nature (feel free to correct me)."

Eunuchs have been around for quite some time.

Well, if we're going to be technical, you don't alter sexuality (mindset) with surgery, you alter sexual organs. And that wasn't so much a change in sexuality as a change in ability to reproduce. :X Also, "surgery in a nature" seems like a bit hard a precedent for.

It depends on your yardstick; from an evolutionary perspective, eunuchs are still extremely new, and I'm unaware of examples in other species. Also, most eunuchs had it forced upon them, so it's not really a fair comparison.

Some people want to change gender. Its probably not uncommon. We all look ridiculous sometimes; usually as a result of vanity. This is part of the human condition, and again not uncommon (see teenagers).

The proper response is to treat difference with humour and good grace.

Of course! I'm in favor of body hacks of all kinds. My point is, I view people who change genders in the same light as those who get devil horns, split tongues and stretched earlobes. It's your absolute right, and I celebrate it. But by making that choice, the tradeoff you accept is that some suits might not take you as seriously, and grandma might have a heart attack.

I suppose that's the hair I'm splitting: homosexuality is generally not a choice, nor is being born with an internal gender conflict. But the way you alter your body or social identity is a choice, and you should accept the consequences of that choice, or not make it at all.

>and I am unaware of any precedent in nature (feel free to correct me).

There are few exceptions, but clownfish are amongst the exceptions. http://curiosity.discovery.com/question/why-clownfish-change...

Isn't Y Combinator already the Y Combinator for transgendered people? I can't see it affecting an interview or acceptance -- the bathrooms at YC don't even have gender assignment on the door.

My best guess is that, in the mind of this person, her transgender status, rather than the obvious inconsistency and absurdity of her business idea and whatever other red flags she managed to work into her YC application, is what caused YC to reject her.

Yeah, I really think this person would be better off moving to the bay area (which seems to be the plan) and getting a job at a reasonable tech company (where no one cares either way about your sexual orientation, gender identity, etc., except to the extent that you want to get the best candidates to apply/accept, and thus don't want to exclude pools of people intentionally or unintentionally), vs. trying to start an incubator (without money, without any experience or special skills, and in a saturated market...).

>I'm doing this to save the lives of transgender people on the brink. Those at risk of suicide, homelessness, and starvation.

Those are all risks of joining a startup, not reasons to start one.

You won't be taken seriously unless you can demonstrate your technical\business chops. If you fancy yourself a Steve Jobs then show the world something worthwhile. Build something that is impressive on its own merit and you will inspire your peers to do great things as well.

What's a T combinator? Y combinator, i assume, was named after the Y fixed point combinator, but I don't recall a combinator named T ...

It's like a Y combinator, but straighter?

EDIT: Because, you see, if you straighten out the arms of the Y, it turns into a T. Nevermind. It was a dumb joke.

The serious answer is because it's a Trans-friendly YCombinator. I think.

I figured that T stood for trans, but I subconsciously hoped that it was a real thing ...

I'm as ignorant as can be about transgender-ism and even homosexuality, but I wanted to reach out to say it makes me sad that someone would want to physically hurt you because of your gender reorientation.

But more on point with the post, I perceive you have three problems:

1) You don't have a simple, punchy business idea that can make a lot of money

2) The writing comes off as a bit outlandish and loquacious in this business setting. Sorry. Cut your prose down and stick with the cold facts.[1]

3) I said I had three? I lied. Yes, that's my third point: never lie.

Seriously though, I hope you address the first two issues and arrive at something you can be successful with.

[1] Then again, what do I know.

Greetings.

I am Cheyenne Cartwright the co-founder of TCombinator, working in tandem with Allison.

I'd like to take the opportunity to address several matters here, point by point.

First, as callahad points out, there is some indirection going on. As people continue to debate the validity of our very existence, as transwoman, the point is being lost that we seek to give viable startups a helping hand by way of investment, a business model that has already proven effective in itself.

Second, our business is being mischaracterized as focusing on our identity. Our business is focused on viable startups, and it is targeted at trans folk. This is a very important difference which is easy to illustrate.

If our business were focused on our identity, especially within the boundaries set by culture at large and how it stereotypes us, then our business would not seek talent and solid ideas to fund. Instead, it would be, at best, a charitable organization aimed at meeting the basic medical needs of transfolk. Alternatively, and in keeping with the general assumptions about us, we would be exploiting trans folk as sex workers, something both I and Allison are intimately familiar with as our job opportunities, education, and even our families turned us out.

Third, generalizing a truth applicable to all humans based on one's own limited observations only manages to show how little observation was accomplished, and how poorly those observations were connected to a claim. Behaviors deemed "gender deviant" are as old as homosexual behaviors (as if we should even dignify the naturalistic fallacy with an endorsement). People say that "transgender" is new, and it is plain that it is only as new as "homosexual" is itself, since no one had that identity, or label, available to them until the late 19th century at the earliest. In any case, it does not mean that there have never been "trans" people until "recently". South Solowesi has, for many centuries, had 5 established genders, and both the kathooey of Thailand and the Hijras of India, along with scores of other peoples have been with us a very long time, and in some cases, before the Common Era.

Fourth, and very briefly, there is no arguing with people who unironically believe either that it is acceptable for everyone that one group be exploited to raise another group up, or that the simple act of being who we are, and daring to show our faces in the world by attempting to be citizens within it, means we deserve a subaltern place in society, that it is the cross we must accept.

Besides, we already do accept it, but we cannot be asked to accept it in silence, or accede to people's ignorant discomfort when it comes to whether or not we have access to housing and meaningful labor.

Beliefs like that are either hardened intractably, or lazy to the point where I doubt this comment will even be read, so I won't argue those points. That's me being realistic.

Even less attention is given to those who thought this post was an appropriate forum for dehumanizing jokes. I can only with you well, and that your companies are never embarrassed by having your identities linked to such talk.

What we want to discuss is business. We have a business model that is tried and true. It will be up to the market to determine the value of what our startups produce, and we accept that. We aren't particularly interested in apologizing for our efforts to move beyond survival sex work, or helping others to do so, nor are we going to have a discussion that assumes from the beginning that our identities, our selves, are up for debate. There are numerous comparable ventures for other minority entrepreneurs, precisely because of how discrimination impacts them, and how "the best person for the job" is often just a mask for the person who had the most privilege in their background to enable their own rise.

We welcome questions about what we want to accomplish and how we will do so, what we are doing now, even some questions about who we are. Just remember that we, like any of you here, are above invasive, cruel, dismissive, or inappropriate questions.

Here are some legitimate business questions for you, with perhaps one ethical question.

1. If this project is an attempt to move beyond subsistence sex work, how exactly will you raise the funds you intend to invest in trans-founded startups? YCombinator's business model initially depended upon the personal wealth of its founding partners. After proving themselves, they raised further investment and received returns on their earlier investments. How does TCombinator intend to obtain this initial funding source?

2. Founding a startup is an inherently risky and difficult task, requiring great skill and experience. Most successful startup founders have the experience and skill necessary to earn a comfortable living without doing a startup. You mention that the goal of your project is to help others to move beyond subsistence sex work. How can you, in good conscience, expect people with no relevant skills or experience to improve their economic standing by founding startups? Would it not be less risky and more reliable to focus on improving less risky opportunities for trans folk to earn a living outside of sex work?

2a. Founding a startup is also a profoundly stressful and emotionally difficult endeavor. Allison wrote of saving people "on the brink" of "suicide, homelessness, and starvation". As I remarked elsewhere, if you're already facing these stresses in your life, you are less, not more, capable of handling the stresses and responsibilities of a startup.

3. The business model of startup investment is to maximize your odds of investing in a billion dollar company. How is that business model served by artificially restricting the pool of founders you're willing to invest in to less than 1% of the population?

This is intensely appreciated, thank you. I'll take it point by point.

1. Obviously we intend to generate some measure of personal wealth, but it's important to understand what we were able to accomplish with what little we had. Allison will be in Mountain View very shortly, doing some work that I may not be allowed to disclose fully, but can say involves web development and innovation, after having made valuable contacts through her original post. They have expressed interest in funding, since she can show the apps we've received already for a few things, many of which are close to prototype stage. It's hard to say more without her or her backers go ahead.

We must start smaller by force of necessity. Just as micro-loans targeted at women have turned around communities in the developing world, we accept that we must start slow before we can fund enormous projects. That said, just helping Allison get pizza one week and agreeing to take on what work I can do in my part of the country helped her move forward with the infrastructure.

2. It isn't only sex work, that's just something which disproportionately impacts our community. I like to joke sometimes that if the stereotype reflected reality more fully, it would say transwomen are mostly programmers. We want, in time, to be able to support a purely charitable branch, but right now we look to fund only those who have a real startup plan and some tangible work they can show us.

As for whether we can do it in "good conscience", neither of us, especially knowing what we can do and what others can do, are interested in giving people "just enough" to get by while still living at risk. We'll do charitable works, and I spend a great deal of my personal time in that area, but it's not enough, it doesn't change things. We can do both, but our focus is on startups people actually bring to us (5 so far in talks).

2a. Already addressed. We want to help prevent talented and driven people from losing opportunities, and that's the top priority. Allison is one of those. She certainly isn't someone with no skill or education or motivation. The question really is, why take away the hope that comes with believing you can make a difference in your own life by telling someone they shouldn't think about doing better until they get as lucky as many people here already are? With work, meaningful work, comes an anchor and dignity and purpose.

3. That's one model, not the only one. See this: http://www.grameen-info.org/ Further, it's strange to ask why we're so restricted, when investment funds already are seriously restricted to a fraction of the population. They have the same demands of talent and productivity we have, but discriminate based on what gives the absolute highest return, and in many cases sadly, discriminate based on the immutable characteristics of the person applying for the loan or funding. Those are two restrictions we do not have.

Someone I know once made a video diary app in her spare time, no funding. It wasn't unique, had no functionality other apps lacked, wasn't even user friendly, and she doesn't even support it. The app still makes her several hundred a month, and she made it purely as an experiment in her spare time. We don't want to fund poor projects that aren't supported, but that's an example of how we don't have to give up because we can't leap straight to the billion dollar idea.

"I like to joke sometimes that if the stereotype reflected reality more fully, it would say transwomen are mostly programmers."

So all the stuff about saving transwomen from a life of sex work was...bullshit?

"Further, it's strange to ask why we're so restricted, when investment funds already are seriously restricted to a fraction of the population. They...discriminate based on what gives the absolute highest return...."

Yes, that's the entire point of the business model. When you take that away, you can't claim it's the same proven business model.

I'm sorry, but none of this makes the slightest amount of sense.

That cannot have been in good faith. I merely meant to suggest I have known many who program. We cannot keep demanding that parts represent the whole. On the whole, there are serious problems with access, even for the very educated and talented (some of whom are lucky enough to create their own businesses, and some who protect themselves by doing so anonymously). But there are those who are very skilled and knowledgable and just need access.

And you're right, with those edits in place, it does make little sense. I want to assume good faith, but can't continue when it's demonstrably unavailable.

You can't have it both ways. Either there's a large pool of experienced and talented trans software developers (in which case they don't really need salvation from poverty and sex work) or the people you're trying to recruit don't have the necessary skills to succeed in technology startups. Furthermore, you can't claim you're following a proven business model while undermining that model.

I'm not saying any of this in bad faith. I just genuinely think this TCombinator concept makes no sense and that your and Allison's statements have been inconsistent and nonsensical. To whatever extent I quoted you out of context, it was to address specific points that the rest of the context still didn't meaningfully address.

Why I am not reading any blogspot blogs: I hate the design.

One of the funniest things I've read all day. Thanks. Good luck with your incubator.

Hey, come on now, be constructive in your criticisms. Try to help them suss out a business model/market fit instead of just poking fun.

You're absolutely right. forgive me.

She's looking to fund a very niche market. To go after GLBT* is targeting a potentially disruptive market; to target the subset of only Transgendered people is to ignore the blue ocean the entire GLBT* community represents. Is there any real indicators of Transgendered people experiencing a problem with getting funding?

This business incubator positively reeks of sour grapes for not being chosen for YC. The thought of transgender discrimination so close to San Francisco makes me even more doubtful that it actually happened the way that's inferred. PG doesn't strike me as the homophobic type, either. I occasionally say "It's because I'm black/gay/asian/a woman, isn't it?" in irony, when something doesn't go my way, because I am none of those things. we are now witnessing "I wasn't chosen for YC because I'm transgendered", which I can't help but find hillarious.

In the post/announcement, There isn't an "I can do it better" mentality being discussed; if anything, all I can see is someone bitterly asking "How Hard Can It Be?". She'll learn soon enough.

Further down in her post, she states that she already has companies lined up before she has money to give them. Bad sign.

Given the timeline since rejection, I doubt she's had ample time to sit down with these potential investees and truly figure out if they're worth an investment. Makes it seem a bit like a jilted ex-lover texting "fine. leave. I have 10 men lined up for dates!".

all of the above was in-mind when I stated why it gave me a good laugh. I feel that nobody is going to take this seriously, and any support in-thread is mere pandering at best, so we aren't accused of being non-inclusive to someone that seems to be using the threat of non-inclusion as a weapon. I respect her determination and zeal, similarly to how I respect a kitten's determination and zeal when chasing it's own tail, and I wish her the best.

I really do hope she proves me wrong, however; judging from the original post, I'll be tracked down and passively-aggressively rewarded for being wrong. I love it when people send me free stuff to prove they're rich and I'm wrong. I get free stuff. I once had a corporate sociopath hand me a half pound of weed as an "up yours" present after he got me fired from a $10/hour job I hated. I can't wait to see what a reasonably-attractive tg could offer. I'll totally give my mailing address in a PM.

* GLBT* as in wildcard, not as a footnote. please ignore the recursion.

In fairness, what you witnessed was someone saying this is ultimately a good thing, not assigning any blame, and expressing their enthusiasm for its potential. There is a discussion of the business merits above this thread if you want to participate. Your earlier joke represents the very discrimination you say you do not see, so if those jokes are done now, you'd be a welcome voice.

lol, and I will do ACombinator, for agender people, that live outside borders of sexuality and are on a brink of extinction ! :D

or NCombinator for necromancers, that are feeling lonely and misunderstood by modern humans :D

Well, I suppose transgendered startup founders is a bigger niche than bingo cards...

I don't know, I don't get the business angle, but good luck!

the YMCAcombinator generator.

I, erm, appreciate your attitude.

That said, what is so special about you folks? Business-wise, I mean?

I don't care if my website is hosted by queer folks. I don't care if my payments are processed by dwarves. I don't even care if my favorite news sites are generated by python scripts.

I care that they work, I care that they help me do my thing, and I care that they're cheaper for the value they provide than competitors.

Why do you believe that transpeople need to focus on anything other than being the best at what they do (and that is running a business, hacking code, design or engineering--not being transpeople)?

Yeah, going to have to agree here. Right now, you seem focused on accentuating the differences between "us" and "them" in an area where it doesn't matter at all. You should be pushing towards an ideal world where things like LGBT pride parades aren't necessary because the differences are inconsequential.

EDIT: It isn't to say there is exists no discrimination, but if you're running an e-business, the question of sexuality or gender identity does not come into play whatsoever, nor should it ever. I'm not sure how someone would be able to find out either of these to even discriminate against you unless you took the time to specifically advertise them. How you choose to invest the money you make as a business person (e.g. help other transfolk) is purely a personal concern.

think of it as affirmative action for transgendered people. this cartoon explains the need for affirmative action more tellingly than i could: http://www.biculturalmom.com/2012/02/10/white-privilege-anti...

First, I'm pretty sure that comparing the plight of the differently-gendered to that of slaves is somewhat absurd.

Second, your comic is open to interpretation:

In the first panel, the white and black are at the same level, with the black enchained. In the last panel, the white is up one level and the black is free.

So, clearly, the sum situation has improved for both parties. Where's the problem?

The problem is that to go from point A to point B, the white had to enslave the black to use them as scaffold. As far as I remember black slaves didn't just volunteer to come to America and do the hard work, did they?

why is it absurd? it's comparing the plight of the transgendered to the plight of racial minorities; the whole point of affirmative action is to provide a helping hand to groups that face ubiquitous and often invisible-to-the-majority difficulties, to level their personal playing fields a bit.

as for the comic, the point of it is that inheriting a situation where, thanks to historical swings, things are easy for your demographic, and then complaining that more disadvantaged groups are asking for a hand when you made it on your own, is both wrongheaded and sadly common.

There's a layer of indirection that I don't think people are considering: The OP is wanting to build an incubator for transpeople. The startups it funds will likely pass your test and focus on being the best at what they do.

The only difference is that they had an additional funding avenue due to their founders' identities.

The real question is why that additional avenue should be available at all, and I think there are at least two good reasons:

1. Allison has compelling social motivation, meaning that she doesn't need to maximize her financial return to achieve her goals, so long as the investments are sustainably profitable.

2. If there's an institutional bias against funding transpeople, her willingness to provide funding may work to her financial benefit.

I have my reservations, but they're not related to the target audience.

The problem I see is that I can either get the service from the best of the set of transpeople, or from the set of people who offer the service (of which the former is a subset).

I'm unsure that choosing gender identity as a defining factor is going to help anyone market themselves as the best--especially when there are significant social biases in place.

Some people want to market to specific groups for good reasons. Is it possible some great services and ideas can come from smaller groups? Maybe even better service, better designed for a specialized, smaller group?

Demonstrated in our thread is intense negativity, lack of recognition and anti-support towards some people's gender identity -- and even a resistance towards writing about it.

If significant social biases exists, and alternative support networks remove social biases, is it potentially helpful?

If great technological people can be identified within specific groups better than before, why resist?

We give positive feedback for posts about stopping discrimination against 'popular' minorities, and ending gender gaps.

But more unusual prejudices, biodiversity and genderism is hard for people to think about equally supporting.

I will keep following your posts because I sense you understand there are people who can help people, who are not being helped, in our community.

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