Hacker News Reader

Comment by ajays | Hacker News Reader

I'm not an Euro Zone resident, so I have to ask: what's stopping the people of Spain (especially the youth, with their 50% unemployment) from hopping over to Germany and finding work there? Isn't it the case that any member of an Euro country can work in any other country?

View on HN

That's actually what is happening. A running gag / frequent banner text is that the "Future of Spain emigrates to Germany". In one town, the Mayor even subsidized free German oourses to his people (http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,771736-4,0...).

The problem is that emigrating requires money and mobility, and Germany is looking for qualified people. Hence many of the emigrants have university degrees, and only the lesser qualified remain, which is not exactly helping much, economically.

As a Spaniard who has worked worked in Germany I have to say it is possible but the main problem is that not many spaniards speak German. And this is something that you're likely to need. It can be easier if your job is IT, for instance. Nonetheless many young spaniards are leaving the country, specially the ones with a higher education.

It's not as easy as that. As people above me has already said , there are a lot of young people hopping over to Germany, some know the language, some not. In my circle of friends, most of us think that the best (or maybe the only) opportunities for us are outside Spain, and this is an extended opinion between the youth people here.

But there is a problem. Many of the young people unemployed come from the construction. People who stopped studying when they finished the ESO (secondary education, from 12 to 16 years old) or even before that, and consequently they don't have any specific formation (and very few know german language). In this situation, they can't migrate to another country, there is no job for them here neither in Germany.

Of course, this is causing a problem on the long term. High-qualified people is migrating. Low-qualified people is staying. Spain can't keep a sustainable economy with this situation. This crisis would not had affected Spain so much if the Real Estate boom had been stopped early and the inversions in education had been increased significantly, and with this panorama the country won't be able to correct the situation, and we will be vulnerable to another crisis like this one.

Anecdotes say that many more Spaniards are now in fact moving at least to Berlin, but my guess is that the movements would be much bigger if the language barrier wasn't there.

Besides, it's not like Germany is paradise either. The official unemployment numbers are low compared to other Eurozone countries, but (a) that hides a lot of underemployment such as in part-time jobs and (b) even those "low" numbers are still pretty high.

I'd add to the listed reasons that you cannot collect the "paro" subsidy from outside of Spain, and they seem to be serious about enforcing this now.

Right now, and for the first time since Franco times, Spain will be a net emigrant country (2011 stats to be released soon). Germany is a popular destination. UK as well.

UK, Ireland (really), Netherlands seems to be the best options.

The majority of the unemployed people are from the the real estate and construction sector. If you look at stats, unemployment is made of low-skilled labour and immigrants (non-EU citizens). It is very hard for these people to migrate to another EU country given their lack of skills.

a) Not speaking German. b) Is there a job in Germany they can and will do? c) I'm in Ireland. There are currently >2 Spanish co-workers working within 20 feet of my desk.

I think Spaniards are a bit like Americans in that it's hard to find multilingual ones. Young Spaniards do emigrate in droves, though.

N.B. I live in Spain.

Europe is not like the USA, there is a significant cultural and language divide between states that stops people from hopping over the fence like that. if i were to pick up and move to california from New York, there would be almost 0 change (other then the stress of moving etc), not quite the same leap from spain to germany even if they are geographically closer

I do understand the language divide at least. But given a choice between unemployment and, say, working in a place where you don't speak the language, I know I'd pick work any day! At least you're picking up work skills and a second language, which is far better than sitting at home twiddling your thumbs.

But it's rarely as simple as a.) paycheck, different language or b.) no paycheck.

What about family, friends, hobbies, etc. There's plenty of people not willing to move to a different town/city/village in their own country for a job, yet alone to a different country.

If you don't speak the language you won't get a job.

That last sentence you write exposes your cultural bias towards work and skills. Its not quite the same in Spain. Just ask the architect next door, who with 2 years of unemployment is sitting around, waiting... Well, he is fixing his house up a bit...

That said, another out of work neighbor started a small business and my wife and I built him a small website and bootstrapped it a bit with an adwords 75 euro card. I wish more folks were like him...

I moved from Spain to the Netherlands with almost 0 change. Working on IT helps, of course, but it's still pretty easy. Jump on a plane, register on the city council, there you go.

Yes but if your English (and/or Dutch) wasn't as good as it is, it wouldn't have been quite as easy...

I moved from the Netherlands to Spain (the south) with 0 change. Working in IT helps; I work remotely and do exactly the same as I did when I lived in the Netherlands. If you want to work you can, anywhere.

We actually were looking for IT people in Malaga, but it seems that people don't really want to work. I know enough companies from 'the north' looking for people in the south; people are just not applying and if they do they mostly ask for weird conditions... I know dev jobs for at least 100 people at different companies which cannot be filled in Malaga.

Subtract corruption and politics from Spain and you get a really good place to live.

Besides, the people being offered jobs abroad are capable of getting a job in Spain.

Usually, people forget about the natural unemployment rate of Spain, which has always been really high. That includes underground economy.

So, yes, there's an alarming problem with unemployment, but numbers shown are imprecise.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com