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Comment by dindobre | Hacker News Reader

The social contract is so broken that I'm not surprised that piracy is rampant. I justify it (and I make games). It has all become a matter of leverage, I truly believe that if some companies (or people) could point a gun to our heads they would, and it shows in the way they operate.

And no, it's not always "it's just profit", sometimes it's a shortsighted chase of the next stock value high with complete disregard for the future since lack of accountability is pretty much built-in into the higher classes of managers

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It can't be worse than in the mid-90's (at least in relative numbers, of course absolute numbers will be much higher because the market is so much bigger now).

Ever since services like Steam existed I have pretty much pirated zero games, it's just too much hassle compared to clicking the Buy button on Steam (and if it's too expensive, the next season sale is always just around the corner). In comparison, my 90's self owned pretty much zero bought games.

Or as our Lord and Saviour Gaben ;) said:

"The easiest way to stop piracy is not by putting antipiracy technology to work. It's by giving those people a service that's better than what they're receiving from the pirates."

Still spot on.

I also appreciate Gaben, but we can't rely on enlightened despots, it just leaves room for bad actors to eventually ruin things.

Of course, but since the Steam model works so well one wonders why everybody else is stumbling along instead of "just" copying it. Steam is pretty much the only platform where I don't care that I'm constantly bombarded with "targeted ads" for instance, I'm actually most of the time interested in what the Steam recommendation algorithm has in store for me.

The "ads" on steam are so good that piracy websites use steam to recomend new releases.

I wouldn't even call it "bombarded". I only get ads when i click on "store", as in I signal "I'm interested in spending money, what do you have?" - that's actually a reasonable time to get ads.

> Of course, but since the Steam model works so well one wonders why everybody else is stumbling along instead of "just" copying it.

Origin, Blizzard, uPlay et al failed to challenge Steam largely because they lack both features and catalog; it's not clear they even intended to take on Steam, because of the lack of content from other publishers.

EGS is worth special attention because it both has content from other publishers and has dumped considerable cash into the goal of unseating Steam. I think it comes down to features: the EGS store has generally been a sub-par experience, and they purposefully refused to implement features like Community Scores, Forums, and other metasocial features that make Steam what it is.

They underestimate the value of player reviews, community scoring, forums, guides, workshop and so on. Even if most of users of most games don't avail themselves of those features, they're important features for retaining the most die-hard of users; who in turn form the core of the social draw to use Steam.

The problem with EGS isn’t really the lack of features (though it does lack many), it’s that the interface is poorly designed as well as being sluggish and miserable to use.

Epic Games Store comes to mind, along with dozens of other smaller/defunct enterprises. There's a rumor that Gamestop is going to make one that's crypto-enabled somehow. The problems remain; ask anyone who's been banned by Valve how they feel about their Steam library being rendered completely inaccessible.

> Of course, but since the Steam model works so well one wonders why everybody else is stumbling along instead of "just" copying it.

Because copying is theft. I kid...

The problem is it's incredibly hard to create a semi-ethical company like steam without an enlightened despot.

Yeah, of course Gaben will say that (while providing developers a Steam DRM mechanism). A good PR example: he knows the importance of antipiracy, but he also knows the importance of downplaying it to not irritate the gamers.

The steam drm is a joke and I think it's on purpose. It takes a few minutes to use a steam emulator and overcome it.

Publishers do also have the option of including their own DRM, which Steam proactively discloses, one of the things that I love most about it. But it's rare enough (basically just Ubisoft and EA) that I can fully boycott anything with that label without feeling like I'm missing out.

DRM is optional for Steam games, I think that's a pretty good balance between the interest of game developers vs the interest of user, it's an issue between users and game devs, not between users and Steam.

The more important point is though that the Steam DRM is hassle-free for the user. For instance games (with macOS ports) I already bought for PC I can also just install on my Mac, with save games automatically shared between the two. I don't have to buy a separate Mac version (as would be the case with Xbox vs Playstation), nor do I need to pay extra, so there's no incentive to pirate the Mac version.

DRM could also be executed in a way that makes it impossible for companies to claw back the content. DVDs use DRM and all it does is restrict what devices can access it, but it can't be retroactively clawed back. Consumers understanding when that is the case is the problem. They just assume it can't be clawed back or they just think it's very unlikely, and only get mad when it happens. Unexpected restrictions in content is a centralized platform thing in general and can happen with your own content on any cloud storage provider for example, it isn't necessarily a DRM problem.

Valve can take away software you've rightfully purchased as well. I don't know that they are the holy grail either even though they're commendable for what they've done with gaming on Linux. I bought CS GO years ago but after the CS 2 transition, I was no longer able to play the game since it became Windows and Linux only.

> it's just too much hassle compared to clicking the Buy button on Steam

Game piracy today is still easier than clicking the buy button, and it's also free. We're not ripping individual files from sites anymore these days, most games are neatly packaged up into one-click install repacks.

Gabe Newell rightly pointed out that piracy is a service problem. People pirate if getting access the legal way is prohibitively expensive or too much of a hassle. I can easily get access to any game I care about at a reasonable price on Steam. I can listen to any music I care about at a reasonable price on Spotify.

The same could almost be said of movies and TV series on Netflix years ago, but hasn't been remotely true for a while now, ever since the splintering of streaming into warring content owner kingdoms.

Guess which types of media I haven't even considered pirating, and which media I've given up on getting legally.

I've been in your camp on all fronts for a while, but Spotify has been getting worse and more expensive, and there are some meaningful gaps in their catalog. I got rid of my CDs a decade+ ago, but I think it's time to start buying and ripping music again.

Unfortunately, Plex also wants to charge me to stream my own music, so the first step to find a new media player that isn't subject to enshittification.

Jellyfin.

https://github.com/jellyfin/jellyfin

I also use Navidrome for my music. Supports the Subsonic API too.

Jellyfin and I had a bad going-through with handling. Minutes to pull up even a single discography. These days, it plays videos and that's it.

> Unfortunately, Plex also wants to charge me to stream my own music, so the first step to find a new media player that isn't subject to enshittification.

Shit. I was considering switching my music library over the Plex, since they already both live on the same hard drive...

I'm on the same boat as you. I don't pirate games or music anymore, and I've not done so for years. However, for movies and TV shows it's another story. I don't watch enough of them to warrant a single subscriptions, let alone multiple to watch the few shows and movies that do interest me and never are on the same platform.

It's endemic for sure -- I download pirated stuff yes, but as I got older, I really did try to make an effort to use streaming services, movie/media stores, app stores, etc. Everything about it was so awful and ridiculous that it just wasn't worth my time to deal with the frustrations and more importantly the ever increasing costs and advertisement non-sense. Having an entire TV series I was watching suddenly vanish from the provider library in between episodes, shows/music I had used the applications own "download to local device" feature vanished just because I was traveling and suddenly I was not approved to watch/listen to the stuff I had paid for, constant advertisements and pushes for more subscriptions, it was absolutely asinine.

I do continue to download some pirated items but largely I just checked out of modern media mostly because the cost of participation is too much. At least online there are some services that video essayists release on which aren't too bad (Nebula isn't horrible, but still is a bit annoying).

I'm fearful of the day that searching "[some specific functions I want] + FOSS" and looking for repositories that have what I'm hoping for will stop working, since it's been fairly successful for me to find software that doesn't come with all the modern tech world non-sense. Some of the most simple applications like DaisyDisk for macOS or the Redirector plugins for browsers are absolute gems that have made my life objectively better and more convenient, and the teams behind these programs have shown repeatedly they aren't interested in anything else besides just having their programs work. It was very easy decision to donate to these teams/buy the apps because it was the most simple transaction ever, and the programs work as well or better than they did when I first installed them. Same with games from GOG -- I love that I have bought HoMM3 one time, and I think more than a decade later, I can still use the same installer, get the installer again, and enjoy my game wherever I want, and it's a completed game that can be further improved by mods.

Real and workable models for selling tech exist and it works without DRM -- I know for corporations it's not enough money coming in and they "need" to monetize every last drop of blood out of everything, but it's not like these business models are impossible or even bad; just different and a bit calmer than the corporate non-sense we have today. And the alternative models without DRM and data pilfering are definitely something I am willing to buy into, since there looks to be a pretty damn good chance I'll be able to actually use the stuff I'm buying how I want to.

I agree, real and workable models do exist. The problem stems from regulatory capture, unbalanced leverage, and long-term unaccountability of the "higher ups", in my opinion.

> I truly believe that if some companies (or people) could point a gun to our heads they would,

Just look at the industrialization of healthcare in the U.S. - and especially at the prices of some life saving medications. A gun to the head is the business model.

I buy games, but not until there is a way to pirate them first. I just want to be sure that I can play what I buy forever and ever and the way I like it.

Profit or stock value is what is measured, sociopathy is what's driving it and lack of accountability enables it.

Precisely. Corporations are purely sociopathic entities; they would kidnap us off the street and blend our bodies into bloody slurry if they thought it might make them a single penny of profit. There is no use treating your relationship with corporate entities as anything other than strictly adversarial.

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