Comment by hristov | Hacker News Reader

Comment by hristov | Hacker News Reader

Do not buy this! It is a three wheeler that take advantage of the motorcycle loophole in the US. In other words it is registered as a motorcycle and does not have to have any of the safety features of a car and yet it is far heavier than a motorcycle. Morgan has been making gasoline powered three wheelers and has been selling them as "modern classics" in the US for several years. And boy are they death traps.

I got rear ended by one of those three wheeled contraptions last year. It was a completely ordinary situation where any normal roadworthy car would have made a stop and avoided an accident. There was plenty of space to stop. But the morgan could not stop. I could hear his tires squealing behind me for what seemed like an eternity before he crashed into me. Of course it did not have antilock brakes (they have been required for cars in the US for about 25 years now). The front wheels were these thin motorcycle tires that had no stopping power. I am not sure the rear wheel even had a brake on it.

My car had some bumper and trunk damage. The morgan was totaled. The Morgan did not have much of a front bumper and took all damage straight to the radiator and engine block. I drove of the accident site. Me and several firefighters has to push the morgan off of the accident site. I did not get injured, the morgan's driver crashed into the wheel, and had pain in the ribs. The Morgan did not have an airbag and I did not notice a seat belt.

Do yourself a favor, never get into one of these things, do not even think of buying one.

Clearly you're not aware of the classic cross-ply tyre which is what classic cars used before radials became standard. These are car tyres, and while I'm sorry somebody crashed into you, this was more their lack of attention than anything else.

Also, the damage to the Morgan was the point: the crumpling f its front end is exactly waht led to the driver suffering only bruised ribs rather than the horpitalisation or death that might have been with a less-modern-safety design from the 1930s. This is how cars are safe: they absorb the energy by crumpling so that your body doesn't have to.

> Clearly you're not aware of the classic cross-ply tyre which is what classic cars used before radials became standard. These are car tyres

Yes and classic cars were extremely unsafe by modern standards

> horpitalisation or death that might have been with a less-modern-safety design from the 1930s

Or zero injuries or maybe not even a crash whatsoever with a not particularly modern safety design from the 90s

Morgan Motor Company have an extremely specific clientele. Their cars are truly hand-made and their four-wheeled models are substantially constructed from wood. Nobody buys a Morgan without knowing what they're getting into.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJLcoGMPQ94

> Nobody buys a Morgan without knowing what they're getting into.

Unless Morgan launches a new product and gains interest of new audiences, like now.

I was unfamiliar with that brand. Seeing a comment with “PSA, this won’t have an airbag” was helpful.

Yeh I also found this comment helpful. I ride a motorcycle so I'm comfortable with a vehicle where there's an added risk, but it's definitely something I'd want to know before buying something car-shaped.

> Unless Morgan launches a new product and gains interest of new audiences, like now.

I expect those audiences will learn when they try to order one and/or when they see the price tag. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_Motor_Company:

“Morgan produce 850 cars per year, all assembled by hand. The waiting list for a car is approximately six months, but it has sometimes been as long as ten years.”

I don’t think this is a car that you buy in a run of the mill shop.

I guess it's worth pointing out that this isn't thd only model of car that Morgan makes.

Clearly, since their whole USP is to have the car look like some classic from the 30s or earlier, its going to inherit the safety limitations of those body shapes.

And yeah, driving them on US roads where everything else is so much bigger is likely to end badly if you're not paying attention.

So while your point is completely valid, its not like you're thinking to get this or a Toyota sedan, for your next purchase. It's a special vehicle aimed at a specific market.

If your main goal is safety (or comfort, or practicality or price) then Morgan should not be your target vehicle. (Then again one could say the same thing about motorbikes, yet they sell well because there can be other goals as well.)

> driving them on US roads

I’m not sure it would be that different on European roads either.

well it is. you don't see the same behemoth cars over there. the roads are much less crowded. and the whole of the place is not designed around cars, so smaller cars are the norm here, and much more practical. I can guarantee you won't enjoy driving a pickup here.

> I can guarantee you won't enjoy driving a pickup here.

Weren’t we talking about driving a three wheel car with poor tires and no safety features? I doubt riding one on European roads would be that mich safer.

You may as well say the same about motorcycles. And yet plenty of us ride and enjoy motorcycles.

At least motorcycles have ABS and decent stopping power, though usually less than a car.

Some motorcycles (and cars) have switches to disable ABS and ESP to make them feel more like old ones.

Nowadays, driving a vehicle without these technologies seems crazy. But those machines are not for everyday use: they are a special kind of entertainment for passionate people, those who most likely know what they are doing.

It still happens to be surprised by a situation, like the one top post seems to describe, and even with great experience it can become tricky to stop, with or without technology.

I have older bikes without ABS. You would think a Morgan, having the extra wheel on the ground would have better stopping power than a motorcycle — but then there's the added weight....

I'm always cognizant of my lack of stopping power when on my motorcycle and so leave a wide berth between myself and any vehicle ahead of me. I suppose someone not used to that mindset finding themselves in a 3-wheeler might be forgiven for thinking they were in a car.

My 2016 bike doesn’t have ABS. ABS is still fairly uncommon in the motorcycle world, especially with sport or naked bikes.

It's not even particularly efficient. 4 miles/kWh is merely okay, not good. My 2015 Leaf gets 5.1 miles/kWh.

Firstly, this is a technology test bed, not a car that will be produced.

Secondly, Morgans are all about the styling. And 30s styling is not aero-effecient. I think we can safely predict that when an electric Morgan does appear it will have poor effeciency. But that won't matter. No-one buys a Morgan for range effeciency.

You must have unusually efficient driving habits. https://www.cars.com/research/nissan-leaf-2015/

It's got a factory 24 kwh battery for an official range of 84 miles. That's 3.5 mi/kwh. I don't doubt that you can hit 5.1, but it's not representative.

I mainly drive downhill on the way to work. Then when finishing work, the earth has rotated a full 180°.

Could be a combination of that and EV-specific tires that decrease resistance and increase range.

What I've observed is that I get about 5.2-5.3 in the summer, and about 4.8 in the winter. When my wife drives it, she gets more like 4.9 in the summer, and 4.5 in the winter. So there's a difference in driving style, but my wife definitely doesn't try to drive particularly efficiently and still beats 3.5 by quite a bit.

That’s way better than my 2015 Leaf gets. I’m 4.1-4.3 miles/kWh in slow speed city use without climate control, and high 3s on mixed highway/use.

Better not ride bicycle either if safety is your primary concern.

> Do not buy this! It is a three wheeler that take advantage of the motorcycle loophole in the US.

It is not for sale. From TFA:

> Before you get too excited, it's not going into production—at least not in its current form. XP-1 isn't a preview of an upcoming model, nor is it a hint at something coming in 2025 or… whenever. It's a testbed to see what Morgan can get up to with a set of batteries, a motor, and a healthy dose of engineering.

Morgon does however have ICE vehicles in the same format which share the same problems, which is what the OP is referring to.

These cars do in fact have a negative reputation in the racing world because the 3 wheel setup is very prone to tipping, they don't have much grip, and overall frankly the rest of that car isn't great. You'd be much better off getting one of the Lotus 7 clones.

Ironically, even relatively inexpensive new motorcycles (for example, 400cc Kawasaki Ninja) comes with ABS, and have for many years now.

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