> Musk said last week: “I disagree with the idea of unions. I just don’t like anything which creates a lords-and-peasants kind of thing.”
This sounds ridiculous.
This sounds ridiculous.
They work for fractions and they are necessary for the company.
If a worker knows an owner is desperate, the worker can win. The opposite is true too.
Says the oligarch to the masses.
That word is often used in only a post-Soviet context, but the word is Greek and far older than the Soviet Union, and the Wikipedia page has a pretty clear definition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligarchy and whilst the word triggers near-allergic reactions from Americans it does seem to reflect the power control in the US recently.
I guess he knows that and I guess that is the real reason he dislikes them.
I actually agree that a lot of unions reinforce an us-vs-them mentality that might be necessary in local disputes but certainly isn't as good as having everyone's incentives aligned. What I think Musk might be missing in this context is that European unions have a deep history in the guild system and are related not just to bargaining with employers but also disseminating best practices and standards, so they add a lot of value as well.
What is a good example?
the claim was that unions, today, disseminate best practices that make up for lack of companies training their employees to be able to do their jobs well, which I'm skeptical about.
This is the first time I've seen someone mention this as a good thing.
Most of the time its mentioned in outdated regulations dragging out the economic output of Europe in favor of old people who don't want to use new technology. I think everyone who has worked in physical product company has heard a story about how European unions are slow and expensive which is why XYZ is done somewhere else.
I actually like unions, I just found it silly to think that the guild system and the laws that resulted from union's corrupting the government are good things.
Ultimately, I think a qualified support of unions in principle is going to bring pro-union folks towards the center much more effectively than a denouncement.
In America, yes. Painting Scandinavian unions as fomenting an us-vs-them mentality is more misunderstanding from people who don't understand what it's like to live and work here.
Unions here know that if the companies doesn’t prosper, so won’t the people employed by it.
So the industry and the unions negotiate agreements that ensures we have the strongest companies with the healthiest workers.
Sure, one side represents the company leadership and the other the workers, but they have a shared goal and collaborate on that, knowing that government legislation would be worse for everyone and not be agile and adaptable to the needs of different industries.
Nordic unions are fundamentally different from for example the French, which are more like the American. Both organize workers, but from completely different perspectives and completely different roles in their respective economic systems.
None of them have much to do with the guild systems of old. Some countries still have the guild systems intact.
What unions do is provide an opportunity for the workers to collectively apply power.
Of course, there's a lot of nuance in the implementations, and of course people can be corrupt as hell.
But in no way, shape, or form did unions create the management/worker caste split. Holy hell that requires some twisted logic.
In my particular experience, I always hated working unionized jobs I had and much preferred being a free actor with minimal fuss. I don't feel like "management versus workers" is a real divide in most non-union jobs I had (in which case you could say that systematizing the difference materializes the difference). But I also think it would likely be very different in different companies and industries. Unions aren't for me and I think they've had their use in the past, and I'm ambivalent as to their necessity in modern times (since governments now enforce a good set of minimums).
Looking at this from a distance and without picking sides, I can see both sides have a point and a bigger agenda. The actual conflict seems like it is a sideshow to this bigger agenda.
In Scandinavia the unions are historically very strong. Strong as in they are mostly socialist leaning countries where the socialists have set policies for decades backed by very strong unions that dictate how companies operate. Not just Tesla, all companies. The message is fall in line, or else we'll cripple your company. And it's a message not just to Tesla but to all companies.
One little problem though, Sweden doesn't actually have a socialist government currently. Neither does Denmark. And Norway has a minority socialist government coalition. So, socialists are fresh out of power all over Scandinavia and struggling a bit. Also as Tesla workers aren't unionized. These unions aren't representing those workers directly. This is part of their grudge. So, unions feel a need to assert themselves and reclaim some power. And they are using Tesla to do it. Perfect company for fanning the outrage a little and Elon Musk is always happy to offend anyone with incendiary statements. But you have to see it for what this is: political posturing by the unions.
With Tesla the agenda is that they are a multinational and they are investing billions world wide in creating giga-factories and lots of employment and they are looking to get the best deals for this. Governments are lobbying them heavily for being the next giga factory site. So, what's the signal Elon Musk is giving off with to those governments by doing this in Sweden? Get the unions of my back if you want my money. So, he's happy to let this escalate a little. It works wonders elsewhere. The big picture for him is getting favorable conditions to build his next giga factory elsewhere in Europe. The Swedish are just pawns in that game. My guess is he'll ultimately fold in some way to keep the Scandinavian market going. But forget about a Swedish giga-factory happening.
Yes, this is also the conversation where he said "Go fuck yourself. Go. Fuck. Yourself."
The Danish prime minister is from the social democrat party.
The striking Tesla employees are union members (IF Metall).
As for the socialist conspiracy theories, they mostly feel out of favor in the 1990s.