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Comment by redder23 | Hacker News Reader

VERY ironically just do NOT buy a fucking Google phone to un-google it. I really really like the Grahpene OS project but its a damn shame that is does only support Pixels and not Fairphones or phones that are at least privacy supporting from the manufacturers end.

I think "hardware security" of Google phones sounds nice on paper but you never know if these is some NSA chip or some other exploit build in that the Graphene OS devs never know about. I do not trust Google AT ALL and would love for them to support different Phones, because /e/ is does not sound very secure in comparison, they build on Lineage OS and they actually lowered security to widen compatibility AFAIK and I guess /e/ OS is just copying + de-googling.

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There are good reasons why Pixel phones are the only ones supported by GrapheneOS. See the list of requirements here[1]. If other devices met that criteria, they would be considered for support as well.

The GOS team has done very thorough work to audit the supported devices, including the hardware, firmware and software components, to make sure they reach their high standards. They've made upstream contributions to AOSP, Linux and other projects with features and bug fixes to improve security and privacy of users. The project is well regarded in security circles, and I have no reason to distrust the team.

As much as I dislike Google, I wouldn't mind using their products if they respected my rights and freedoms. The GOS project ensures that more than any other modern smartphone, and I wouldn't change it for anything else.

[1]: https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices

What's the chance that any non-Pixel devices will ever meet those criteria? 0%?

I bet that if Google stops matching one of those requirements, the team will just drop that requirement instead of abandoning the whole project and all their work.

Which means that these requirements are at least partly informed by the capabilities of Google pixel phones.

I have to say though that the timely security update thing is really a weak point of Fairphone. Yes they have years of support but they often delay updates for many months or skip major upgrades altogether.

Well yeah, because they have no choice? Like what kind of counter argument is this?

GOS is reliant on work upstream like most products and projects are, it's why they stop supporting phones once the SoC and it's associate blob code fall out of support of the manufacturer. Fairphone doesn't do this, they keep pumping out new versions filled with unpatched vulnerabilities while pretending the software they're producing for the hardware they're supporting is up to date when it actually isn't. It's not a weak point, it borders on fraud.

If the NSA chip you describe exists, it's in every android phone. I don't see why it's any more likely that a google product would have a government backdoor than any other manufacturer. (More likely that it's an IP block in the processor rather than a discrete package "chip".)

That leaves backdoors created by and for Google, concern for which I suppose your comment still applies. It seems less likely to me though...

> but you never know if these is some NSA chip or some other exploit build in that the Graphene OS

I wouldn't be surprised if there were some backdoor in the Qualcomm chip the fairphone 5 uses or the radios in other phones. Without open hardware you really can't trust anything. Not when we know we're all being constantly spied on by the state and by the corporations who design/manufacture our hardware.

Even with "open hardware design", you still can't get that trust without "open hardware manufacturing"

True, the limited number of chip manufactures makes me think they'd be very easy targets for states looking to spy. If they're reasonably auditable though you'd hope they'd be found out.

CalyxOS is a ROM with a similar focus and does support some more phones, including the FP4 and with the FP5 marked as upcoming, see the device list on https://calyxos.org/. It is the more reasonable choice to GrapheneOS anyway, given their recent issues with developer behavior.

> It is the more reasonable choice to GrapheneOS anyway, given their recent issues with developer behavior.

What were these issues?

Behavior akin to a paranoid delusion. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4To-F6W1NT0.

The developer is gone, so no need to avoid the project completely, but CalyxOS is an interesting alternative anyway.

Why spread FUD about a developer that is no longer involved?

It's not FUD, but simple facts. The project accepted that behavior for years - for me that's something I want to know before using software. Similar as to why one picks FreshRSS and not tt-rss.

Facts can also be FUD. The problem is gone, so why keep bringing it up?

Presumably because I asked so he answered.

The parent comment brought up the dev originally, but seems it's no longer an issue. Different commenter than the person you're replying to though.

This is what I do, new Pixel 7 + GrapheneOS. Works great, I highly recommend it.

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