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One old guy in a bubble thinks says another young guy in same bubble (who he just happened to mentor) is "the most powered person he's ever met."

That whole first part disgusted me. "most powered person he's met"? Good lord does that come off as tone deaf, almost groveling.

And the most important company in human history? The hell is that guy smoking, because I've got good shit and that's some serious hyperbole.

Is the hype machine in the room with us right now?

I would guess 90% of tech today is hype, that's what you're reading, the hype machine in practice.

It certainly seems that way my dude. I can't remember the last time I saw a new piece of tech or software and thought "fuck yeah this is revolutionary".

Maybe Git...? I thought that was pretty cool back in 2006.

The other PG hyperbolic comment about Sam that springs to mind is when he said that meeting Sam felt like what it must have been like meeting young Bill Gates. That's a throwaway comparison from a journalist, but from a bloke who barely interviews anyone who isn't a self-confident workaholic nerd convinced he'll change the world and get rich doing so.. its a bit more of a extravagant comparison.

But then, considering the reputation of young Bill and the one Sam seems to be acquiring, maybe the "powered" traits that apparently set him apart from other YC candidates weren't so positive after all...

> I do think he legitimately believes he's doing the right thing though all throughout, which maybe makes it more scary

I really think the opposite. I think he's after the biggest payday/most power he can get, and anything else is a secondary consideration.

I think you can fairly ascribe a lot of negative attributes to Sam, but an unnatural thirst for money isn't it. Nothing about anything he does makes me think he's motivated by increasing his personal net worth.

He has said in podcasts he is motivated not by the money but by the power he has at OpenAI

Do you have an actual quote? I've listened to him talk a lot, and this feels like a misquote or misinterpretation. (I'm not saying it's not true; I just don't see Sam saying he personally likes power)

Here are a couple I could find in notes I took while listening to podcasts, though there are more -

“I get like all of the power of running OpenAI” “I don’t think it’s particularly altruistic. Like it would be if I didn’t already have a bunch of money. The money is gonna pile up faster than I can spend it anyway.”

Those I think are either from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sWH2e5xpdo or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hpuPi7YZX8

Just went to the first video and got the following from 1:36, here's a link which starts at that point: https://youtu.be/3sWH2e5xpdo?si=bmum-8B02FLoVkWj&t=96

"I mean I have like lots of selfish reasons for doing this and as you've said I get like all the power of running OpenAI, but I can't think of anything more fulfilling to work on and I don't think it's particularly altruistic, it would be if I didn't already have a bunch of money, yeah, the money is gonna pile up faster than I can spend it"

Some other fascinating and relevant stuff in that video too.

To me, that sounds like he acknowledged his power but disagreed with the person who said it. He's just repeating the question but shifted to it being fulfilling (and not about money). Without the question being included, I think it's hard to use this quote as proof.

He's also said something similar in another interview:

“One of the takeaways I’ve learned is that this concept of having enough money is not an idea that’s easy to get across to people. I have enough money. What I want more of is, like, an interesting life, impact; access to be in the conversation. So I still get a lot of selfish benefit from this. What else am I going to do with my time? This is really great. I cannot imagine a more interesting life than this one and a more interesting thing to work on.”

I think I can see how you interpret it that way.

I certainly didn't interpret as him disagreeing with his statement "I mean I have like lots of selfish reasons for doing this"

It's the "as you've said" part of "as you've said I get like all the power of running OpenAI" that would make me inclined to think what you wrote here.

But I do think there's a greater chance that he is saying that he does like the power.

There's also another quote either in this video or the other one I shared I think where he's asked why he's doing this, or what motivates him, or something like that, and he responds with something like "I'd be lying if I didn't say I really like the power"

I don't claim to know what motivates him. I don't know him and have no view into his thinking. I'm just going by what his actions look like to me.

I can't distinguish between a thirst for money and a thirst for power because above a certain level, they're essentially the same thing.

> Nothing about anything he does makes me think he's motivated by increasing his personal net worth.

Not even the weird shitcoin with the eye scanner he's been pushing (WorldCoin)?

Based on the last 5 years of crypto hype and failures across the industry, the only motivating factor to get involved in it seems to be 'increase their personal net worth'.

Everything else aside - in what world is Sam Altman “more effective” than Zuck? How do you even define effective?

In this case I think I just mean more effective at seeming good to others.

I think they both believe they are good and doing good.

People tend to be more suspicious of Mark Zuckerberg's motives than Sam Altman's.

Sam Altman himself even said he can't be trusted but that was ok because of the company structure and then, when he needed to, overpowered that structure he claimed was necessary: https://x.com/tobyordoxford/status/1727624526450581571?s=20

>perhaps the most important company in human history.

holy shit, hype is unreal :D

There’s a lot to be said about Altman, but calling him a “psychopath” is just wrong. It’s a legitimate medical term and should not be used for hyperbole

Look up Annie Altman.

Are you saying this because of the diddling accusations or for some other reason?

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/QDczBduZorG4dxZiW/sam-altman...

Look up Annie Altman. Be seated.

I think you're using the word "psychopath" when you're talking about something different, though I can't guess what.

Psychopathy is a personality disorder indicated by a pattern of lying, cunning, manipulating, glibness, exploiting, heedlessness, arrogance, delusions of grandeur, sexual promiscuity, low self-control, disregard for morality, lack of acceptance of responsibility, callousness, and lack of empathy and remorse.

(Which, now I read it, is disappointingly pattern matching the billionaire who invested in both OpenAI and also a BCI startup currently looking for human test subjects).

I can see arguments for either saying Altman has delusions of grandeur or lack of acceptance of responsibility depending on if you believe OpenAI is going too fast or if it's slowing things down unnecessarily, but they can't both be true at the same time.

You may be right here.

However, there seems to be a decent amount of evidence that Sam has done exactly what you're talking about.

He manipulated and was "not consistently candid" with the board, he got all the OpenAI employees to support him in his power struggles, he made them afraid to stand up to him (https://x.com/tobyordoxford/status/1727631406178672993?s=20), he exhibited delusions (though I guess they were correct) of grandeur with pg with a glint in his eye making clear to pg that he wanted to take over yc, he did little things like made it seem that he was cool with Eliezer Yudkowsky with a photo op but didn't really chat with him, etc.

Again, I am not sure this perspective is necessarily right (and I may be convinced just because he's such an effective psychopath).

In any case, I think this is a pretty good explanation of this perspective: https://x.com/erikphoel/status/1731703696197599537?s=20

> (Which, now I read it, is disappointingly pattern matching the billionaire who invested in both OpenAI and also a BCI startup currently looking for human test subjects).

Elon Musk actually matches several of those poorly, and matches bipolar disorder much better (most of those are also bipolar or billionaire symptoms, while psychopathy is inconsistent with many Musk symptoms like catatonia): https://gwern.net/note/musk

Thanks; I certainly hope that's closer to the truth.

(Since my original comment, I've remembered that even professionals in this field don't remote-diagnose people like I kinda did).