Code of Ethics | Hacker News Reader

Code of Ethics

sqlite.org

26 pointseklitzke21 comments

> we subsequently learned that "Code of Conduct" has a very specific and almost sacred meaning to some readers, a meaning to which this document does not conform

My favorite in-person programmer group was disbanded over a purely theoretical debate about the Code of Conduct.

About 30% of the group decided we were being exclusionary by not incorporating very specific, and in my opinion exclusionary, language.

However the same 30% had no problem attending a reconstituted group containing exactly the same people which formed a few weeks after the first group disbanded.

The new group has no code of conduct. It simply meets in places that have a preexisting set of rules, and we go by whatever they are.

Problem solved.

CoCs, in their most fundamental form, are vectors for language & behavioural control. People who desire to control the language & behaviours of others will be drawn to occupy such positions of control, whilst those that don't want said control due to personal beliefs will not seek out such positions. Overall, their existence creates structures for authoritarian influences, as well as mechanisms for ostracization & self-censorship.

No person should ever be in charge of it.

Like laws? Or rules? Sure. They are methods of control.

Policies against {uncivil interactions | personal attacks | harassment | abuse | spam | denial of service} all of these in their most fundamental form, are vectors for language & behavioural control. People who desire to control the language & behaviours of others will be drawn to occupy such positions of control, whilst those that don't want said control due to personal beliefs will not seek out such positions. Overall, their existence creates structures for authoritarian influences, as well as mechanisms for ostracization & self-censorship.

No person should ever be in charge of it.

More explicitly: you're 100% right that I want to control the behavior of others. On HN, I agree with most of the HN rules that expel speech from this space that does not contribute to the mods ideas of a good, healthy, productive discussion. It is civilized.

A set of simple “rules of the road” are necessary. They should be common sense, because some people don’t have common sense and need it explained. And there’s always “that guy” who doesn’t care.

Some people really are toxic.

But establishing a minimum standard of behavior is very different from rectifying historical evils and enumerating lists aggrieved groups.

If your groups code of conduct contains specific instructions regarding the situation in the Middle East, you’re overthinking things.

The minimum standard of good behavior need not be explicitly stated, and violations can be dealt with as they arise. The problem with written sets of rules is that they can be subverted and misused.

> The problem with written sets of rules is that they can be subverted and misused.

That's also a problem with unwritten sets of rules that are based on vibes. If the baseline expectations are written down, at least people can notice if the rules aren't being followed.

It should be stated. Not everyone shares in the same values as everyone else. There are also those who are unable to understand the social norms of others.

Plus unwritten rules can be subverted and misused at least as much as written ones.

Humans are always gonna do human things.

It’s so much easier if you state the rules before someone breaks them.

This is a great Code of Conduct and anyone who follows it will be a great person. Its also great that it doesnt have a bunch of enumerated punishments and mechanisms, just a call to goodness.

In general, I wish there were a wider variety of CoCs. Yes I can be super nice, but it might be nice to work in a team that is brutally honest with each other and takes nothing personally. I have the stomach for it and, if someone else doesn't, they don't have to participate. Of course such a CoC would be excoriated by the mob.

Even before this, SQLite was already famous for having a blessing in place of a legal notice in its LICENSE file (which I really like and have adopted for my public domain works):

    May you do good and not evil.
    May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others.
    May you share freely, never taking more than you give.

The Code of Ethics can be thought as its natural extension, not merely a knee-jerk reaction to various Codes of Conduct.

I think this gets shared occasionally and my suspicion is its as a reaction to the many organisations that have no problem having a code of conduct that calls out bad behaviour that a certain set of readers wish they were still able to get away with. And frankly, if that's the case, posting this is cope.

It seems pretty good except for the parts about not getting drunk and not trying to make people laugh

Actually on second thought, its fine to exclude those from a mission focused collaborative coding space.

Take jokes and drunkeness to a different medium

We live in a very sad world if software projects now have official religion.

It turns out that anybody can build and maintain a software project. There’s no dictator of software stopping them. If the group of people maintaining SQLite happen to be Christians who want to work together according to Christian principles, how are they any worse than, say, a rapacious advertising company with a history of violating user privacy? People buy furniture from the Amish and beer from Trappist monks, why not use software developed within a religious community?

My conspiracy theory, completely devoid of evidence, is that Codes of Conduct are a way for large corporations to gain control over FOSS projects they covet by creating arbitrary controversy aimed at the current maintainers of these projects. That's why CoCs are written very gray so they can be weaponized in different ways or not at all, depending on the level of coercion required. Corporations don't do this directly but through activists, some of whom are willing pawns and others who believe they're doing the right thing for the world but are actually being nudged into doing things that benefit the corporation.

But like I said, I have zero proof of this. Perhaps it's better as a screenplay than an explanation of how things are going but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if there's some truth to it, at least with some FOSS projects.

From experience, I would agree that the first thing activists who wish to take over a group will do is to behave badly, and then use this as the pretext to demand a Code of Conduct.

They will then subvert the spirit of the CoC, while adhering legalistically to the letter, in order to control others. They allows them divert a topic into pointless discussion of the rules, or to needle someone persistently, while remaining within the rules, until that person reacts, at which point they will insist that he has violated the CoC.

I think this kind of action is in the CIA guide to subversive action or something that's been circulating around the Internet for decades.

Basically you use excessive bureaucracy and arcane rules to grind all progress to a halt.

SQLite is not a large corporation. The rules of the noted CoC appear to be given is good faith (pun intended). I'm not a follower of Christ but I recognize the good intended and have no problems with what was shared.

Obviously good intentions can pave the path to hell, but this case is only a problem to those that want it to be a problem.

Ugh. Religion is so cringe.

I like it!

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